Thank you all for your warm welcome! Sometimes I want to make a virtual season of CSIM, less E/C, more Ryan, Nat, Frank, Jesse, Walter, and Horatio! Through FanFic probably. That IS Funny! And I'm in the game! I miss that, too. I'm VERY disappointed to Calleigh, her old personalities have gone just because one man. Also don't forget, in WISC Calleigh do nothing when Eric yelled at Ryan. And sure she asked Ryan twice if there is anything wrong, but it didn't feel like she really cares or worried about him. She didn't tried harder, Old Calleigh will try harder than that. Also, Old Calleigh never calls Ryan with Wolfe! It shows how their friendship starts to shattered. Spoiler said that there is a Ryan storyline in S9, just hope that storyline doesn't include Ryan getting trouble again and that meaning less E/C. Can't comment about TIME BOMB, haven't watch it yet. Since the E/C thing began, there are many science and factual errors, for me it's look like the writer didn't write the script with their logic minds, and all the things they thinking about E/C. TPTB never realize the talented actors' potential. Instead of using them more, they just use them as background character. And this always bugging me every time I watch the show. I want to ask questions to all of you who have watched the entire season 8. How was the episodes where Eric is in? Is it full of E/C again? Because if it is, maybe I will skip them and just watch the episodes where Eric isn't in. By the way, I like your sig, MiamiWolfe! The Three Musketeers!
I actually forgot about that!! E/C are so off in their own little world it is as if no one else exists. It is sad, because the whole thing has changed both characters for worst. Where did you read that about Ryan, you have me curious?! Yes, Ryan has been in trouble enough and I have seen more than enough of The Angst and Happiness which is this mess. Too busy trying to shoe horn in another gaggy nomance scene. A soap opera with a little science thrown in:brickwall: There is so much talent on that show on that show it is unbelievable. Anytime JT or ELR gets a chance shine, they knock it out of the park!! It irritates me to no end that they are shoved in the background for this neverending irritation. Even H has been pushed aside, something I thought I would never see. Yes the Eric eppies are full of E/C. Don't skip them especially Time Bomb; Jon is fabulous in that one:thumbsup: Thanks. I wish the caption came out better but I like the picture
I think it all depends on your level of E/C toleration. I find 1 second sends my toleration meter into the red zone and I switch channels. When I get a few minutes I'm actually thinking about editing WISC to cut all E/C from the opening sequence so that I can see what is important without all the nonsense interruption. (I finally deleted Backfire from my DVR unseen - I don't recommed that to everyone however. I heard there are some great Togo scenes in that one! Just couldn't bring myself to watch it. It's not only the E/C with that one. I think both Rodriguez and Procter are challenged in the dramatic acting department. Neither pull it off very well in my book. Rodriguez thinks drama is screaming and acting out of control. Procter looks unnatural and forced when she tries to look upset, compassionate or tough. Her reaction to Horatio's "death" made me laugh. She looked like she was trying to stifle a sneeze or a Snidely Whiplash laugh (Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh! The lab is FINALLY mine. All MINE! :devil That said, she is outstanding when it comes to comedy.) E/C was so heavily sprinkled throughtout the season you were never allowed to get a way from it. People were supposed to miss Delko? How? He was never gone long enough for that to happen - despite all the hype. The best episodes were the ones with him gone because E/C was reduced and the team took the lead for a change. But as I said, he was never really gone. And when he was back it was all Eric and/or Eric and Calleigh ALL THE TIME! Total saturation! Everyone else took a back seat. So in the later half of season 8 there is rarely anything but Eric or Eric and Calleigh. Come to think about it, even Calleigh kind of took a bit of a back seat to Eric in the latter half of the season. And everything points to season 9 being a continuation of that theme. The fact that Rodriguez has recently indicated his "surprise" at the number of fans who DON'T like E/C is really pretty alarming when you think about it. The fact that he, and presumably his co-star in the storyline (who like himself never stops promoting the nomance), the writers and TPTB on the show, are that seriously out of of touch with what a large number of their fanbase is saying doesn't say much for their credibility. They have blinders on. They have their hands firmly placed over their ears screaming, "la, la, la, la, la," because god forbid they hear something that doesn't fit with what THEY want. They have their hands firmly cupped at their mouths, however, screaming statements that will scare their supporters into starting petitions and campaigns to keep their storyline the focus of the show because it's worked before and they are hoping that the viewers that support their cause will continue to answer the call! The numbers that are tiring of it are increasing as each episode airs and they see that the promise of getting back to the basics was just TPTB blowing more smoke up our tushes. It's a total and complete lack of respect for the viewer. It's insulting and we're the only ones who can finally demand the respect we deserve. Hype and smoke and mirrors is one thing. But we've been blantantly lied to over and over again and have been stupid enought to ask for more. :scream: Will we ever learn?
Sorry, I really forget about where I read it, but I could remember it was said that Ryan and Walter will get storyline, and Jesse's storyline, the one involves his wife, will wrapped up. Just hope it is true. I always amazed with JT and ELR acting, I think they were better than EP and AR, no offense, EP and AR are very good before the opera soap began. Sad fact is this nomance changes everything about Eric and Calleigh, even their cleverness! Also when (finally) there were episodes about Nat and/or Ryan, they still show E/C a lot. Lately when I watch CSIM I always asks myself, is H still the main character? because his screentime is not as much as before. I'm in dilema. Okay, I will watch all the episodes, but skip the E/C scenes. I'm in great dilemma. I have this feeling that when I watch Backfire, I will watch another version of SGIYC, just this time with ghost (this storyline is ridiculous). BTW, I want to see WISC without E/C, too! That is why I like JT and ELR better than AR and EP. I feel sad for them when the interviewers asked them about E/C, not about their own character. TPTB and writers are too busy planning what to do with E/C so E/C could take over the show again and get shiny. :scream: :scream: :scream: They also close their eyes so they couldn't watch their own TV show and realized that the nomance is actually a failure. All TPTB need for now is a reality check. But well, no matter how load we scream, they wouldn't listen because their ears already stuffed by stones. I have got attached to the show, no matter that it's already show it's age. But if the story still like this, I could just leave it and not watch anymore.
Something in the back of my mind says this whole story line came about out of external necessity. The end of season 7 could very well have been the end of Eric--they could have legitimately written him out of the whole next season and beyond. And by all media accounts, he wanted to leave and pursue a movie career. But somewhere along the way, he had a "David Caruso/NYPD Blue" revelation, and realized that bring the third-billed actor on a popular TV show wasn't so bad after all. I'm betting it even beat being a stock broker. So he went back and asked for his character back. They probably obliged, because his character is/was well-liked, and they didn't know how the introduction of Eddie and Omar to the team would pan out. So he's not "on the team," but he's still "on the show." The best they can do to reintegrate him back into the weekly plot was to hook him with with C.D., and hold onto that bond like a tiger holding a pot roast--come He** or high water, they will stick together.
And that is why I wasn't too happy when I heard that Eric was coming back full time. I like the TEAM interaction! Everyone working and interacting with everyone else (Walter/Ryan, Jesse/Nat Calleigh/Frank etc etc). With Eric back, will the division return that caused Ivan S to tell Horatio at the end of one eppie his team was "falling apart"? Will we see Eric only work with Calleigh and vise versa?! And that is the first thing I thought when reading the article about the season finale. EP made some comment about there being an 80% chance of her returning and she hoped she did because she hoped E/C to go to the next level. It seemed to me a ploy to get the fan base of this story arc in a panic; what if EP doesn't return?! She has to return for that happy ending to happen!! And the emails, etc. keep pouring in. People will only take so many lies and be jerked around so much before they throw up their hands and walk away. I am frustrated because I was hoping for a more team approach in season 8. And we did see glimpses, just not much of it. Maybe just to keep us watching? I actually I heard that as well. And like you propto, I hope it is true as well. If Jon gets shafted again for this mess I will go postal (well at least scream anyway) A couple of Ryan-centric eppies were ruined (prime example WISC) by the presence of this joke. As I stated before, I never thought I would see the day that Horatio would be shoved this far into the background. If you tape them, you could fast foward through the E/C scenes; much better that way:thumbsup: It will be interesting to see how the move to Sunday night effects viewship, especially for the casual or new viewer who are under the impression this is a crime solving show.How will they react to the "All E/C All the Time" approach tptb insist on taking?
. They ALL were. Ryan really had a chance to shine in WISC, but it was dumbed down to get those E/C moments in. The whole show has been dumbed down since they started up this mess. I watched "Complications" from S2 (the anesthesiologist found hanging from his loft; the guy who sues the plastic surgery clinic when his wife dies), and I loved all the forensic. And TWO cases in one eppi! (God, I miss Alexx!) Case in point: if "Complications" were in this last season, Calleigh would be staring in a mirror agonizing over whether she should get plastic surgery, having a daydream about playing Ride 'em Cowboy with Eric, hoping he liked her new boob job. Eric would assure her he loves her just the way she is. Then Calleigh would say he's lying to her--again. Then he'd get that confused look on his face. At the end of the day, Calleigh decides to go under the knife and get a new lift/tuck/whatever. Oh yeah, and she goes into cardiac arrest. Eric's crying by her bedside. Miraculously she survives, and they realize their love for each other. Did I forget anything? Oh yeah, and the nursing assistant killed the guy.
To add to the subject. I also think it's played out when they give Calleigh or Eric emotional drama and when that is predictably resolved at the end of the show, her and Eric are in each other's arms. Geez. E/C are not a storybook romance. Their scenes are too awkward to give that kind of notion.
You're right. Do they think that the eppie or Jon (or the rest of the actors for that matter) aren't strong enough to carry an episode that they need that for a filler? Of course they aren't even given a chance. IMHO, Jon can carry an eppie, he is that talented and so are the other underutilized actors. If that seems to be the issue, the problems are with this group of writers then. No imagination and lazy.:brickwall: The pre-nomance seasons were better that's for sure. I think two cases would work now; the only "complication" (pun intended) would be having the love birds only working with each other and their case being the primary case every week. You know, E/C on one case with all the angst and kissy face, and Walter, Ryan, Jesse and Natalia on the other. :guffaw::lol::guffaw::lol: It's funny because it's true. You know, I was talking with a good friend of mine who doesn't watch CSI:M very often and we discussed E/C a little. Her first reaction was not only that she felt that there was no chemistry between E/C but Calleigh had no chemistry with anyone on the show. And this is from someone who rarely watches the show.
I know the "I want to stretch my wings," and "I'd like to try new things, like continue to do feature films," was the face they put on it, but looking at all of the comments that have been said since the immediate PR campaign announcing Rodriguez' departure has died down, I have a strong suspicion that was to help Rodriguez save face (think back to Star Jones' departure from "The View", say anything you want about way you're leaving and we'll back ya - she was fired and she elected to tell the truth). Edit: Allowing the actor to put whatever spin they want on it is always how it's handled. This wouldn't be any different then any situation like this. After all the dust settled I got the very strong impression that Rodriguez went into the contract negotiations with an elevated sense of his importance and CBS simply shut him down. Rodriguez himself has admitted that CBS walked away almost immediately after negotiations began - with little to no negotiations even taking place. He was surprised at their actions. His decision to pursue other acting options was because CBS refused whatever he laid on the table and he apparently wasn't going to give on what he wanted at that time. If you recall, CBS wanted his character killed off. It was only Donahue scrambling that gave Delko a reprieve ... unfortunately. I wouldn't doubt that you're probably right. In the interview that I read Rodriguez admitted that movie roles had all but dryed up. I'm sure that the fact several movie roles seemed to hit him all at once for a brief period probably convinced him that he had a chance at a feature film career. After his contract wasn't renewed with CSI Miami, all that materialized for him was Ugly Betty - and then that was cancelled. A rude awakening, I would imagine. CSI Miami was the only option left for him, hence the proding on his Twitter page for everyone to start contacting CBS and letting them know how much they "miss Delko." And from what I'm seeing online and hearing at work from those who still watch this show, his return has not been greeted with the excitement TPTB and Rodriguez might be thinking. A lot of people realized that the show seemed to be a lot better off without Delko and the actor's credibility has taken a hit with how this whole thing came about. If one of the other actors lose their job because of his character's return, it will be another blow to his credibility. I think the show improved greatly with Delko's absense. And I think it was because in his absense the show again focused on the "Team" and E/C was significantly reduced (out of necessity). I cringed every time they announced he would be coming back - more Delko drama and more over the top E/C drama. Will it ever end! Only TPTB didn't get the message. There was no appreciable affect on the ratings with or without Delko. Shows with the big E/C "moments" didn't garner any significant ratings and the big "kiss" episode was creamed by a reality show! :lol: They bring Delko back and all of sudden CSI Miami becomes the Eric Delko Show with special guest Calleigh! And again, the "Team," including Horatio, becomes supporting players to E/C. :wtf: :lol: Ya got that right! The whole show may go into the toilet - but E/C WILL go down the crapper clinging tightly to each other - and still trying desperately to sell the nomance with non-existent chemistry and really inept and laughable attempts at bad sex! :scream: I wonder if you guys remember this from the recent Rodriguez interview where he stated he HOPED that Jon would get a really good storyline? :guffaw: I think ya got it pretty much covered, Jag Lady! There is a reason you are one of my favorite fanfic authors! Yeah. That's always been one of the biggest issues for me with the nomance. They are very awkward, unnatural, uncomfortable ... when they try to convince us with their obligatory nomance moments. I haven't bought it from day one. As I've stated before, I just don't believe that heavy drama is either actor's strong suit. And it's sad because I really and truly bought the close, loving friendship. And then they corrupted it and utterly destroyed one of my favorite female characters on tv in the process.
The storylines in season 1 2 3 were great! I miss Alexx, too, I wonder what she was thinking about E/C relationship. You got everything! They didn't have another storyline except something like that. The actors even couldn't help with their performances in that storyline, something like chemistry. I think CBS do the right thing. A very right thing. Damn. I would really happy if they just simply kill Eric. He already has many storylines until there is nothing left except one boring storyline. He has nothing to do, except sayin' ILU to Calleigh over and over again in the same lame story. No, the spoiler came out before that interview. By the way, I read that AR will writes and directs some episodes for season 9, hope he really writes Ryan's story, not just another E/C drama.
Hmm. Then I don't have a clue! :lol: I'm sure somebody will come up with where it came from! I'm really not holding out much hope for any episodes written or directed by Rodriguez. It would require a lot of things to happen for me to be even slightly impressed. The episode would have to center around someone other than Eric and Calleigh, with little to no E/C mention (I'd applaud if he wrote Calleigh visiting relatives and therefore not in the episode!) and the story and directing would have to be totally selfless and devoted to the betterment of the show and not just his character or his storyline. I don't see a lot of that from him in the last 3 years. What I see is a lot of self promotion and campaigning for an agenda that is related only to the storyline that supports his character and maximum screen time for him. Reason for hope: He has at least acknowledged that there are fans who dislike E/C and that Jon Togo is an incredible actor who deserves a major story. I would have been more impressed if he had included Eva La Rue and Rex Linn and acknowledged that Eric and Calleigh and E/C have taken up entirely too much valuable time that should be devoted to the team and he's going to work towards seeing the team be the focus next season and NOT the nomance and he'll work for a reduction in the amount of time that has been devoted to his character alone. I'll have to wait and see where the pre-season PR goes. Interviews that speak to the show and the team and not only his character or the E/C nomance will be a start in helping me to see the possibility of Delko's return in any kind of a positive way. Right now the only thing worse than Delko's return for me (who would really like to see BOTH Eric and Calleigh gone - preferably dead so there is no chance of a return), is the "nomance" itself.
Wow lots of posts! I have to agree with everything that has been said so far, and also a very warm welcome to Propto!!! Pull up a chair and make yourself at home! Hmm yes I must agree... I feel like most of his episodes will be like... Backfire... In the Wind.. stuff like that with major E/C moments... Or even BETTER something about HIM and HIM AND CALLEIGH. What an amazing episode that would be... :shifty: [/sarcasm] On another note, I was watching the episode Going, going gone today, and I saw one of the Calleigh and Jake scenes which majorly shows the difference between E/C and CaKE. I don't know if anyone remembers, but this is the scene where Calleigh gets "shot". After she's "shot", Jake shoots the guy (YAY JAKE!!) and screams Calleigh Calleigh blah blah. But here's the difference between a CaKe scene and an E/C scene. Jake runs to the person he shot FIRST to see if he's dead, which is good because he's following protocol and etc etc... THEN he runs to calleigh. If it were ERIC he would have run to Calleigh first and just assumed he was dead but in reality he wasn't so gets shot... I thought that this scene really shows how unprofessional E/C are (eric hanging over Calleigh when she's in the hospital ) and how more professional (may not be 100% professional but it's definitely more than E/C) CaKe is.. I just found that interesting. *goes back to lurk mode*
^^ I remember the scene you are talking about. You're 100% correct. As Eric ran to Calleigh during the closing moments of the finale,I thought,"oh goody,someone else gets to die because Eric was too busy thinking about Calleigh instead of getting help on the way". Actually,I thought worse but I can't post that here.
With AR gone, they actually got back to basics, and the "team aspect". Ryan was finally one of the gang. The addition of EC and OM brought a must needed breath of fresh air to the show, and it was fun to watch. AR returned and the tptb went back to force feeding us a unnecessary storyline. Losing an actor (which I really don't believe is going to happen) and a move to a night where the show could be hard to find for awhile plus a tired storyline that seems to be turning off more and more viewers could spell the end. When I heard AR was going to return I thought "lovely, and it was going so well". Frankly I am beginning to think it will end only when the show does Again, tired of being jerked around by an never ending storyline, this plus their favorites being background fodder. I will say this until everyone is sick of hearing it, but most people (me included) turn in to see science and crime solved, not a soap opera between two emotionally immature people. Or Eric and Calleigh: The Angst and Joy. Makes my stomach churn to think of it.:scream: They remind me of two strangers caught under the mistletoe while everyone is chanting "kiss kiss kiss" and they awkwardly give in just to shut everyone up. I just don't see the chemistry. I really enjoyed their friendship; they were protective of each other and had each other's backs aka Mac and Stella. And don't forget how Calleigh has pretty much turned her back on everyone else, and shunned her close relationships (for example Ryan) for the sake of this mess. As I originally stated, just because two people CAN hook up doesn't mean they HAVE TO hook up. Writing a storyline for Jon Togo would be a big step to build back his credibility for me. Who knows? Maybe he will; stranger things have happened. That would be akin to admitting he was wrong or misinformed and I don't see him doing that. I still think alot of the nomance promoting was EP. I will be interested how the PR of season 9 goes as well.