Season 5 Discussion

Season 5 is definitely on the bottom of my list of favorite seasons. Most episodes are typical and just okay. I didn't like the team being split up.

My favorite episodes are:
- What's Eating Gilbert Grissom? - satisfying conclusion of season 3's Blue Paint Killer.
- 4x4 - very unique, refreshing episode. I liked how the cases were told.
- Grave Danger - very exciting, twist after twist, team effort, amazing acting, CSI at its finest.

Disappointed with:
- Ch-ch-changes - that was the 100th episode of CSI? This show has never been good at milestone episodes - Changes and Mascara. Something I'm not expecting in a supposed to be big event. They could have been just a normal episode.

The rest are just good. But, King Baby had the one of my most favorite scenes ever in CSI! Nick and Grissom with the receptionist! So funny!

 

*cracks knuckles* Oh BOY. This is the one I've reeeeeeeeeeeally been looking forward to doing.

Essentially, season 5 is both what kept me away from CSI for so long and what ultimately got me hooked. It's my comfort viewing. It's the season that, frankly, I've probably watched way more times than any sane person should conceivably want to - and I'll almost certainly watch it a few more times yet!

The first episode of CSI that I ever saw was the (delayed) UK premiere of Grave Danger, Pt 2. And...wow. I thought (and still DO think) that it was the stupidest premise unhung. Please don't lynch me. I was prepared to give it a go (I was with a gang of friends so I was way, WAY out voted over what we watched), and then Nick shot the light out and I just went, "Y'know what; that was my suspension of disbelief going out the window too. I'mma gonna go cook dinner."

*coughs*

Anyway. Skip forward four years, not quite to the day, and through circumstances that I don't really want to get into, I got reintroduced to the concept of watching television for drama purposes rather than wall-to-wall news and sport. Not having seen anything like that in literal years (again, long story, not terribly relevant), I had no idea where to start. Fortunately, this is why I keep my brother around: he found an episode of Numb3rs, which we watched and then it was followed by CSI which I was all set to leave (still somewhat put off by the bit of GD2!) but I was basically just too tired to move, so I sat and I watched Mea Culpa and thought, "Y'know, this isn't as bad as I was thinking. Maybe I should give this a bit more of a shot."

Famous last words and all that. Nearly a year later and, uh, well. Yeah. Here I be. Never let it be said that I don't do things wholesale!

I tend to think that the episodes post-split are, on the whole, better than the episodes pre-split, but I can kind of appreciate some of the pre-split episodes as leading up to the split.

Out of all the season openers, I think Viva Las Vegas is probably one of my absolute favourites (though why, on such a busy night, Grissom had the time for the extremely cheap, to say nothing of hugely unfunny, gag with the infrared helmet, I don't know - that bugs me [pardon the pun]), while the introduction of Sophia and the re-introduction of Ecklie is great in Formalities (the rest of the episode's not bad, either!). Ch-Ch-Changes is also a good episode (even if I did find I wanted a score card to keep track of everything...) and it's always kinda fun to see the bad guy get one over on Grissom as in What's Eating Gilbert Grissom.

Then there's Mea Culpa, which I can nitpick to absolute death, but I'll restrain myself to one point: If the whole point of the team split was to hurt Grissom (which is pretty much what's implied), Ecklie sure as heck isn't terribly good at it! A much more effective split up would have been to put Sara with Warrick on Swing Shift and leave Nick with Greg on Graveyard Shift. Grissom then loses his two favourites and has a much, MUCH harder job saving Sara's career in Nesting Dolls.

(okay. second point: What the hell happened to the original Swing Shift? Did they join Dayshift with their supervisor? Quit in protest? Vanish because someone said they didn't believe in Swing Shift? The only references you get to them are Catherine repeatedly saying she's short handed and the fact that they must have been there for there to be a previous Swing Shift supervisor for Ecklie to move to the Dayshift and piss everyone off!)

Moving on.

I suspect it will surprise precisely no-one if I say that Snakes is a biiiiiiiig favourite of mine. I'm also extremely partial to Nesting Dolls (in particular, the scenes between Grissom and Sara at her apartment; I think they're a great payoff to something that's been building since season one) and I LOVE 4x4 (as a writer, I always like it when people play with format and all four stories are great mini-episodes). I also really, REALLY, really, REALLLLLY love Iced. Considering there's four dead people involved, it's probably the funniest non-lab rat episode CSI's done and it's also, I think, one of those rare episodes were just about every cast member gets at least one scene.

And then there's Grave Danger. Which, as I said at the start, is a premise that is just the silliest thing unhung. There are so. many. issues. I have with it that if I start on them, I'll still be writing this post this time tomorrow.

Having said that, though, if and when I sit down to watch it (which, with season 5 being my comfort viewing of choice for CSI, happens more than you'd think), the acting and the characters are so good that I get sucked right in to the story and it's only afterwards that I sit there going "So, why didn't Nick choke on his gum when he was kidnapped? And am I really supposed to buy that the guy who kidnaps Nick is really John Saxon? Really? And just what the hell was DA Michaels doing in the 20 minutes between Nick going missing and calling it in?"

So, really, Grave Danger gets probably an F for plausibility but an A for (again, pardon the pun) execution. And I do have to say, it really does help seeing part 1 before you see part 2...!

Overall, then, even the episodes I don't go so much on are decently entertaining, and ones I do like, I love. Definitely the season to get hooked with!

 

Season 5 is my least favorite season and I'm not really sure why. Maybe it's because the team was split up. I understand why the team got split up and understand that it did bring some reality to the show, but I just didn't like it because it was frustrating. Mea Culpa is actually the only episode of CSI I will refuse to watch more than once, just for the reason that I want to strangle Ecklie.

Admist my hatred for season 5, I do like some parts of some episodes such as 4X4 and Iced, but the one episode that I do like is Grave Danger. Grave Danger is the episode that sparked my obsession with CSI and really made me appreciate Nick Stokes. I too have some problems with it and I've found myself criticizing the episode to my friend. I've ranted about how they should have just made it half an hour longer and released it as a movie; how they should have shown more of Nick in the box; how no officer, not even Michaels, could have not noticed Nick get kidnapped; etc. But then again, I've watched the episode about twenty times and it's still my all-time favorite episode that redeems season five in my opinion. :thumbsup:

 

*laughs* Happy to oblige (and also, thank you for not lynching me!) Don't get me wrong, Imma lovin' me some Nick-angst, and the episode does provide it in, er, spades (sorry), and when I'm watching it, I have no problem whatsoever with it. Ironically, it's probably BECAUSE I like the angst angle of it that I've ended up thinking about it so much - and it's an episode that the more you think about it, the more holes you can poke in it. I think I got up to 9 different plot holes just without breaking a sweat the last time I did it!

Worse, actually. See, I'd run across Gary Dourdan in a film probably two or so years earlier and...ohgod. It was THE worst film. I sat through it a bunch of times, too (because of another actor in it, who was playing the one bad guy with brains, right up until the point he was rather implausibly locked in a closet - no, I'm not kidding) and so when I saw Warrick sitting down in the A/V lab I was just like "Oh no not HIM!", which, not the best frame of mind. Plus having to get explanations from people who're already so deep in what they were watching that they weren't coherent - I think the only explanation I got was "They have to find Nick." "Who's Nick?" "Y'know. NICK." "No, no I don't know--" "Shut up it's starting!"

By comparison, "For Warrick" actually makes a heck of a lot of sense stand-alone (it was probably the fourth or fifth episode I saw!) cause even if you don't know who Warrick is the story tells you everything you need to know.

My problem is that I tend to come at these things from the perspective of being a writer, so even when I can/do suspend my disbelief, at the end of it I just go into total overdrive on...not exactly how I'd fix it, but how I could fill in backstory to make it fit better. And then I start researching elements of it and find another slew of problems which leads to more backstory which leads to more research which leads to Athersgeo sitting in the corner of her room going "wibble" as she realises she's just completely rewritten the seminal CSI episode!

As a whole episode, it probably is, although Family Affair is pushing it pretty close - admittedly, mostly for the extremely kickass teaser *grin* - and I do have to admit to a certain fondness for s2's Burked.

Question: Am I the only one who wonders about Nick and Sara's "You're late"/"I'm late!? What about you?" exchange and whether or not that was the writers and/or actors taking a not-quite-so-subtle dig at CBS?

 

Season 5 ranks high on my list. I'm not quite sure why people disapprove of the season (a shakeup was needed!). I'll be the first one to admit that "Grave Danger" is not one of my favorite episodes, though, and I'm a huge Quentin Tarantino fan.

One of my favorite things from this season was the introduction of Sofia Curtis. Catherine not trusting her, a possible romance between Sofia and Grissom, and her switching from Ecklie's team to Grissom's was really well done.

I'd also like to mention that the 100th episode was done the way it should have been: not a "huge" event episode. They stuck to what they normally do--which is why I probably loathe "Grave Danger" so much.

Favorite episodes: Viva Las Vegas, Down the Drain, Swap Meet, Formalities, Ch-Ch-Changes, No Humans Involved, Who Shot Sherlock?, King Baby, Compulsion, Spark of Life, Hollywood Brass

Least favorites: Snakes, Nesting Dolls, Grave Danger

 

A few years ago, I would have said that season 5 was my least favorite. However, since then, seasons 6-8 have surpassed season 5 for that dubious honor. Compared with 6-8, season 5 really isn't too bad.

I did like the addition of Sofia Curtis - mainly for the fact that they actually acknowledged that there had been someone working on the ever mysterious "day shift" other than Conrad Ecklie. However, I liked it better when they brought Sofia back as a cop. That job seemed to suit her much better.

Splitting the team into two different shifts was the WORST. DECISION. EVER!
The actors even mentioned that they didn't care for it, as they would go for long periods of time without seeing some of the other actors that they used to on a regular basis. You could almost see that the acting was different for each of the characters.

+ The plus side of the shift change: Greg makes the move to rookie CSI, and Sofia is added.
- The negative side of the shift change: The division of the shifts was predictable. Cath with the guys, and Grissom with Sara & Greg. Could they be any more subtle than the anvil they dropped with that?

This season also brought out more Ewwwwwwww! than usual:
transgender surgeries, snakes, sewers, human feces, grown up "toys", fire ants, grown men in diapers? ... it seems that they knew they were screwing the viewers with the shift divisions, so they decided to bring more of the 'ick'.

As for the episodes:
There were good, bad & ugly in this season.

The ugly:
Hollywood Brass (was there anything more boring than this episode?) I don't think I've re-watched this one at all.

The bad (or rather just so-so):

Swap Meet - I can't consider this one really as "bad" because Dina Meyer is in this one (but not enough)

Harvest - this one just seems a bit 'blah', but the Cath/Lindsey scenes are cute

4X4 - interesting new concept, but was too blah for me.

Crow's Feet - a good storyline for Catherine, but not among my favorites

Unbearable - a way too short "blink and you miss her" appearance by Jane Lynch. (a total waste of her appearance) I like Lolita D's guest appearance, but I wasn't too interested in either of the cases. Oh, and this was the initial appearance for Jon Wellner (before they brought him back as Henry)

Snakes - I thought the title was bad enough, but the stories were worse.

Mea Culpa - the case was quite boring, but mainly because the imminent demise of the grave shift took priority over the whole script

Formalities - not sure why, but this isn't one I watch very much - even though it's got some great individual scenes. The episode as a whole doesn't work for me.

Grave Danger - it seems that most everyone enjoys this episode, but I think it's just basically 'ok'. I love the fact that it brings the team back together to concentrate on finding one of their own. There just seem to be a few too many long, boring parts.

Compulsion - don't really care for the flight attendant story, and only minimally care for the dead kid story. (but love Lee Tergesen's appearance as the dad)

The good:

Viva Las Vegas - Cath & Vartann working together!:drool: I also like Sara & Nick's case out in Area 51. Greg gets to work on his proficiency in the field.

Down The Drain - how can't you love this one with our lovable CSIs wading through sewers? And Sara trying to preserve evidence after discovering the pipe bombs in the closet!

What's Eating Gilbert Grissom? - a nice look into a serial killer from the past. We've had the Millander serials to start with, but they were current ones. This one brings us a look into the past, long before the show began, and how previous cases can still come up for review again.

Ch-Ch-Changes - as strange as the subject matter is with this episode, this is one of my favorites for this season.

No Humans Involved - with this one, I really enjoy the case of the dead boy in the trash can - as well as Sara & Greg's reaction to it. And Brass as well. One of the best lines of this season comes from Sara: "Go with the living, Jim. The dead can wait."

Who Shot Sherlock? - I classify this one as just semi-good. I like the Sherlock recreations, as well as Nick & Warrick's experiment with jell-man. But the episode as a whole seems a bit flat. Although, Cath's scenes with Ecklie always have me chuckling.

Nesting Dolls - the angst. Oh, the angst. Cath/Sara angst. A bit of Cath/Gil angst...

King Baby - a grown man in diapers. The playroom! (which always reminds me of the room in "Keys", the movie Marg & Gary did in 1994) Wendy Malick. Cath, Gil & Brass meeting for drinks... awwwww!

Big Middle - a fairly nice connection with the two cases (both fitting in with the title). Although, isn't this one of those where Vartann is a bit insensitive?

Spark Of Life - along with NHI, one of my favorites for this season. I love how the two cases turn into one, but I also like the two cases individually as well. Greg in the hospital seeing the barely alive burned woman was wonderfully done. We also see the return of Dr Franks (who debuted in NHI), and he also returns a few more times throughout the series.

Committed - those who know me might be surprised to hear that I kind of enjoy this episode, even though there's no appearance from Marg in this one. But as I'm also a Jorja fan, it's her performance throughout this episode that I really enjoy watching. I think this is her best performance throughout the series (yes, even better than being stuck under the car & walking through the desert)

Weeping Willows - A decent episode, yet not really high on my list of all-time favorites. I loved Alan's appearance, and Marg's performance was excellent as well. I guess I'm not a fan of the Gil/Cath angst the way it played out. The G/C angst was done much better in other episodes.

Iced - exploding potties, Ecklie out on a case. Doc & Super Dave in trouble for 'losing' a body. More Vartann... The only drawback was the 'crop circle' case. Way too boring and looked like it was just added in to fill time (and if I remember correctly, it actually was added in. I think it was to be put in a different episode, but got pushed back to this one.)

 

Wow. I actually doubt myself about Grave Danger being my favorite after I read some of your thoughts. I guess I'm just an average viewer. I watch shows just to be entertained without being too critical about it.

Hey Smokey, can name some plot holes for me? I'm
so curious to know. Just a summary so that it won't take much of your time. I really enjoyed the episode. The reviewer of this site didn't mention plot holes in his/her review so I'm so eager to know.

 

This is actually my second favorite season, after season 7. I think it's primarily because it's when I got back into CSI. After watching the first 2 seasons, I lost track due to RL distractions. So, I was happy to rediscover it. I guess the team splitting up didn't bother me too much because I hadn't watched it for awhile. Once I became a regular viewer again I started appreciating the character dynamics better.

Sara and Greg were my favorites, so watching them work together was great. And it was the first time I began to see the different vibe between Grissom and Sara (I had missed most of seasons 3 & 4). The Snakes convo between them was the 'aha' moment for me. After that I was hooked.

I wasn't crazy about Sofia at first. I just didn't like the 'catty' way she was introduced; it was just too cliche. (I think CSI has a bad way of introducing new characters in general, but that's a whole other topic.) But I did like her much better as a detective.
I did like Mia and Neil alot. (Those actors' careers really took off!)
I still enjoy most of the episodes from this season.

My favorites:
Viva Las Vegas (fun episode, loved Sara and Nick's case, and Greg's 'replacement')
Down The Drain (lots of great stuff for everyone, scary family)
Swap Meet (Mia!, Sara's reaction to the 'life style', "You think they're happy?")
Nesting Dolls (loved Sara telling off Ecklie, and, of course, she and Grissom in her apartment)
4x4 (great episode, esp Grissom and Brass' silly taco stand case, and the shower scene)
Committed (creepy suspects/interviews, creepy setting)
Iced (exploding toilets! Greg is a jock?lol)

 

Well, I'm not Smokey (a fact that I think we're probably both grateful for!), but plot holes...well they're kind of my speciality, so...

A List of Grave Danger Nit Picks and Plot Holes (which is not definitive, but it gives you somewhere to start!)
-Walter Gordon was really big enough and strong enough to subdue a fit and active man in his early 30s, then carry him to a car and dump him in the trunk, all without DA Michaels noticing?
-Speaking of DA Michaels, what was he doing in the twenty minutes or so between Nick disappearing and the scene with Brass? Are we seriously meant to believe that (under the circumstances) Brass took that long to get there? REEEEEEEEEEEALLY?
-Why didn't Nick choke on the gum he'd just newly put in to chew?
-Why did no-one say "Let's pull the 911 tape and see if we can track down the caller?"
-When they dig up the coffin at the end, why don't they find the cam part of the web cam? For that matter, why don't we see it when Gordon's filling in the hole?
-Why would Walter Gordon have put explosives on the prototype?
-If the explosives are on pressure switches, why didn't the addition of Grissom and Warrick's weight on top of the box set them off?

And that's not touching the biggest and most basic problem with the episode which is that six feet of dirt really ought to have crushed the box, long before the CSIs found Nick...

Out of all of them, the last one is both the hardest one to ignore and the easiest one to suspend my disbelief over, because (as PraetorCorvinus) it is the movies/TV and they don't always conform to real world physics (though in a show like CSI you tend to expect better!). Some of the others SHOULD have been easy to explain, had the writers just given it thirty seconds of thought and a couple of lines of dialogue (something like "We pulled the 911 tape but there's nothing useful and we don't have anything to compare it to, sorry Grissom") but one or two are just downright perplexing (like the explosives on the prototype).

Moving on...

The movie's called "Rendezvous" and I think it was made for BET as a sort of Movie of the Week thing, which explains the low-budget feel to it - but you can get decent low-budget Movie of the Week stories and this was a really, REALLY sucky one. To be fair, I think Gary was probably the second best thing about the film (the first being my reason for watching in the first place!), but that doesn't say much for him!

Question (since kaylyne's brought it up): Am I right in thinking that originally the crop circle story was intended to be the B story to Committed?

 

*snerk* Oddly enough, out of everything, that's one of the few things that I can actually completely forgive because, let's face it, there's no way Warrick was thinking straight by that point! What I have more of a problem with is Warrick apparently yo-yoing between the site of Walter Gordon's rather grizzly demise and the lab for no particularly good reason.

Luckily, editing errors aren't things I tend to catch (unless they're REALLY egregious - and even then, I usually have to have it pointed out to me that the guy's shirt changes colour between shots... [no, that wasn't CSI, though it did feature Archie Kao]) because I think that would absolutely drive me nuts. Though I may now be looking out for Grissom's magic flashlight (and possibly giggling like a twelve year old)

Question: Does anyone know how long Grave Danger was actually under development for?

I know that CSI isn't the sort of show that has a season bible that says "We will do this, then this, then this and finish with that" (or not as a general rule, at least), but given the way Nick's journey through s5 fits together, I can't help but wondering if the writers knew as early as Snakes what they were going to do at the end of the season.