Grade 'Pay Up'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, May 14, 2009.

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How would you grade Pay Up?

  1. A+

    61 vote(s)
    47.3%
  2. A

    40 vote(s)
    31.0%
  3. A-

    6 vote(s)
    4.7%
  4. B+

    7 vote(s)
    5.4%
  5. B

    4 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. B-

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  7. C+

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  8. C

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  9. C-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  13. F

    5 vote(s)
    3.9%
  1. OldGuise

    OldGuise Hit and Run

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    Hm. I don't think she was being too unprofessional. Just a bit, in a very human way, like when I call my fiancé while I'm faxing papers. It doesn't really hinder my productivity, but I still shouldn't be doing it.

    I mean... calling one's boyfriend while acting as bodyguard to a witness is something I wouldn't recommend, but Angell was approximately fifteen feet away from Connor throughout her entire conversation. Additionally, he was handcuffed, which would prevent a sudden escape, and he was eating with two men in suits, one of whom was probably his lawyer. Apparently, Angell though it unlikely that either of them would attack him, especially if they're on his payroll.

    Angell kept an eye on him the whole time she was on the phone. She made eye contact with him, he glowered (presumably because of the handcuffs), and she looked at her breakfast. That probably would have happened regardless of whether or not she was on the phone with Flack. The only difference I can imagine is that she would have been sitting and eating, which I think is a worse situation to be in if you get caught in a shoot-out.

    Also, I don't know how useful it is to call a dead woman unprofessional, so it never really crossed my mind in the first place.

    For me, there are some clear differences. I don't know how everyone else would view it, though.

    Firstly, everything I said up there.^

    Secondly, walking a few feet away from a guy who's handcuffed, and keeping your eye on him while you call your boo, is worlds different from leaving evidence, which can be snatched away, lost, or a myriad of possibilities, on a counter while you leave the lab to flirt with someone.

    The first is understandable (because Don is hot), yet still respectable, because the job is still obviously high priority. The second is understandable (because Danny is hot), yet considerably less respectable, because it seems like the job was forgotten or abandoned.

    Thirdly, there's more focus on Lindsey, and she has a history of unprofessional antics, such as leaving a crime scene, being rude, etc. So we have a higher chance of seeing her do something stupid, and having it stay up on-screen for a long time. The same can be said for any of the main characters, like Stella, Mac, or Danny, who've all done things that people have complained about.

    And finally... I just don't like Lindsey. I'm biased. It's easy for me to pick up on the bad choices she makes, and when she does something wrong, I immediately think something negative, rather than something positive.

    That's an interesting point. We could be in for some really fantastic drama with him, if the writers play things right. I guess we'll see how things work out next season.
     
  2. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I don't see Flack feeling guilty for talking to her on the phone. And I agree that if Jess hadn't been on the phone to Flack and walking around she would have most likely been sitting with her back to the door eating her breakfast and therefore less aware of her surroundings. As she was talking to Flack she was taking in her surroundings and keeping an eye on the suspect.
     
  3. CSIMandy

    CSIMandy Lab Technician

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    It is sad to see her go. I don't think that Angell's funeral happened yet. It looked like word of her death just got out and family and friends gathered at her father's house to offer their condolences.
     
  4. ~Sarah~

    ~Sarah~ Lab Technician

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    Maybe it was run over by a train and that was the end of it.
     
  5. OldGuise

    OldGuise Hit and Run

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    That's what I thought happened, ~Sarah~. Mostly because when it fell down the gutter, it was balancing on the train track. Then the train came rushing forward, and it faded to black... so I just assumed it was destroyed. They certainly made it seem that way to me anyway.
     
  6. titoelprimo

    titoelprimo Civilian

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    well the episode was originally supposed to air on the 20th...so that makes up for the time difference
     
  7. Nightrider

    Nightrider Witness

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    Budget cuts! BUDGET CUTS! Are you effin' kidding me?! For crying out loud, I know there are a few people on this forum who would rather see a certain annoying someone whacked due to budget cuts than Jess. At least she had a personality! I know, that's wrong, but it's how I personally feel.
    And with Eddie's ugly cry, I was getting ready to cry myself until Eddie broke down. I hate to say it, but his face pulled me right out of it. Oh well, I'm still gutted anyway. I give it an A.
     
  8. CCA

    CCA Police Officer

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    Okay so I want to admit something, when watching the episode. When Sid walked into the room when Flack is looking down at Angell and had that look on his face, I about choked on my pepsi, because I suddenly realized where I'd seen Sid from, the Hills Have Eyes. Yeah..so I can't look at Sid the same way again. Don't let Sid near any birds!!!!
     
  9. under_cover

    under_cover Hit and Run

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  10. laurmarie

    laurmarie Hit and Run

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    normally i dont relpy to posts just as to not start any back and forths about characters who i like who doesnt like its a show and i dont think its necessary to each there own and alot of poeple dont like DL but I love them :)....after saying that i am just wondering

    Danny & Lindsey- well i dont really know, glad they showed some emotion, but they seemed to focus on the importance of having each other now that they have Lucy at home instead of focusing that emotion on what don is going through. Danny walks by Flack in the warehouse and asks him if he's ok and he lets don by with just an ok...another missed opportunity to give him a hug..esp after he sees how his facial expresssions change from one extreme to the other.


    how were they focusing on each other and nothing else there was no talks between them danny did touch her arm when he went to answer his phone but other then that they worked the case there was no mention of the baby and i saw nothing that showed him not focusing on what happened he went to the hospital to be with Flack and as for the ware house i didnt see anything wrong with what happened he asked him if he was ok now he could have been lying when he said he was ok flack but he said he was danny patted his back and let it be why smother him giving someone there space is just as much support as hovering in my opinion anyway...
     
  11. CSIinator

    CSIinator Victim

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    I loved the season finale :[ but i hate the cliffhanger grrrr....
    I just have one problem, where the heck is Lindsay's baby? o_O
     
  12. Plenilunio

    Plenilunio Lab Technician

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    ^ I'm happy they didn't take Montana Jr. to the bar. We had more than enough in 5.24, I don't think we need to see the baby girl in every single episode to remember she exists. Let's just say she was way auntie Rita or that Danny and Lindsay hired a babysitter or whatever.
     
  13. cSiNyFrEaK30

    cSiNyFrEaK30 Police Officer

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    I think if I had seen that baby in the lab or in the diner at the end I would have rated this episode lower. Yes, they have a baby, but us as viewers are smart enough to remember that DL has a baby without having them bring her up or parade her in front of us every episode.
     
  14. Elwood21

    Elwood21 Pathologist

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    Working crazy hours, didn't even get to see the ep till Monday. Didn't get to sit down here till today.

    Overall I think this ep was great visually, the sound was fantastic, I loved the style of it, the pacing and momentum of it was well done and only rarely gimped, I thought the casting of supporting players was good, and the dialogue simply felt like that's how it shoulda been. It wasn't a terribly deep ep, more white water rafting than deep seas, but it was one of but a handful that I'd say were the season's saving graces. Thank you Rob Bailey, Peter Lenkov, Zachary Reiter, John Dove. Some vets from the early days find some of what made the show engaging in days past and serve it up here again.

    I thought Nelly was great as Terence. He played him like he's known him all his life. He can come back to the show anytime, most definitely the kind of guest appearance I'd welcome. Same with Craig T. Nelson. He and Gary had a much better dynamic in this ep, far more on par with what I liked in the first of his eps. I do hope they'll leave things open to having either return in S6.

    As for the main characters, it wasn't bad as far as being a team-ep went, each had a little something tossed their way. It really was Eddie's ep though. And no, I don't think anyone else overshadowed him.

    I loved the opening sequence, how it was put together. That's the NY I know and love. I thought it was a great looking epsiode from the get go and didn't let up. I think the soundtrack, fx, inserts, montages, were consistently great thru out the whole of it. Looked great and kept pushing and punctuating the ebb and flow of the pacing. The first montage was an example of the kind of sequence that I love when they're done well. I could nitpick it but it's hardly worth the bother. Along with the opening,the montages are really a signature of the franchise, and the style of them is a hallmark of each individual series. I would love to think there could be more done like this for NY.

    Onto the reason the hunt was on. Angell. I did have a question as to whether Angell was wearing a vest or not. I somehow think she wasn't. Part of me wonders if that wouldn't be standard on a prison transport but who knows. I'd guess most homicide detectives aren't assigned escorting duties, that prisoners might be fed in prison, that stopping at a diner for breakfast mightn't be standard. Aside from a brief meh about it I shrugged at the premise and got into the show. I thought the quick scene with Flack was kinda cute but definitely just a way to explain the set up for the smash and grab and lead on implications for Dunbrook's possible involvement. I thought the surgery was wrenching to watch, as was the whole hospital sequence with Flack. Don looked very young and lost all of a sudden. He was excellent in this scene and also in the autopsy room with Sid later. The fractured restraint (ugly cry or not) was very moving, still in his tie even while covered in Angell's blood. the juxtoposition of all that was haunting and well done.

    I liked that the revelation (rather, confirmation for most of us here) to us as viewers was written in a way to come from Don himself; a scene of him telling someone else, and not from the more prototypical scene of a doctor delivering such news. I liked that he had already been told, and that his composure slipped in having to answer someone else after the fact. Turned out to be Danny. I also thought it was interesting that the implication was that Don was indeed alone and on his own when the worst truly came to pass.

    I suppose the only part that took me out of the moment was Danny arriving, not saying anything, not doing anything but hitting the wall in his default dramatic closeup. I wasn't impressed there. Lots of comments from people about how Danny was finally there for Don, but I agree only to a certain point. I think that reads because Danny was the first (and only) one they had go to the hospital, and so was the one Don would speak the revelation to. But I can't help compare to the scene with Sid, who was able to reach out to Don in a way that Danny didn't even attempt, other than simply being there at all. And hitting a wall. They coulda played that any number of ways; curious choices is all I'm saying.

    I thought it was poignant that Angell's last meal lay untouched on the table at the scene. I thought Gary took what coulda been a really preachy speech and kept it grounded but with a nice undertone of emotion. I also liked the implication in his words, about calling in any favors owed, leaning on any informants, rattling cages, doing whatever it took, that Mac knows the shades of grey that exist in policing the streets, and that not everything is black and white. He actively encouraged everyone to delve into the shades of grey to make every effort to find and apprehend those responsible for the killing of a cop. I think it was one of several scenes to allude to the layers of the ep's title in paying up.

    I thought the scene in autopsy was great. I loved finding out that Angell was a fan of Sid's. Sid was gentle and gracious with Don, while still at a loss himself in having to face seeing Angell in his realm. The quote was a nice touch, a way of consoling not only Don but himself. Seeing Sid in civilian clothes as opposed to his scrubs also made him much more vulnerable and the moment more personal between the two men. Also a precursor to Flack's state of mind in in "...trust me, well will. And god help him."

    It was nice to see Adam get to contribute as well, outside the labs even, working with Stella. I also liked the return of the Stella I'd come to like this season, outside the charliefoxtrot of 5.24; Hello again Stella of old, welcome home, was hoping we'd see you again. Skimming over stuff here now - By the time Don showed up to the scene of Mac and Danny processing the Hummer I was wondering when they'd let him out of the same shirt and tie, seeing as they grabbed him a jacket. As for the .50cal Desert Eagle, was an interesting cyclical nod to Terence, who had his stolen in Turbulence, I think it was. Desert eagles everywhere alluva suddem. I liked Mac shoving Crazy Tony into the car at the autoshop. Intense. Good scene. Regarding the bat hair, well, I'll come back to that.

    The sequence at the airport picked up the intensity and pacing again, was well done, even with the slo mo bullet crossing. Yet one more touch to elevate things from a generic shootout. And at least Danny remembered his vest this time. I think the guy playing Connor was convincing reading the ransom; something ya might take for granted but if that had been weak the whole premise woulda suffered, and Dunbrook would also have been diminished, and so would Angell's death have been. I also think there was another solid guest performance by the guy playing Angell's father. A nice scene with him and Flack, returning badge #9521 after three generations of service. Was also nice to hear of Flack and Angell's relationship thru her father's words too.

    I honestly coulda done w/o Danny taking a baseball bat to the tires, but eh, it did advance the plot. And isn't science (and plot advancement) more fun with a baseball bat. Plus being a nod to Danny's past and Jess being a shortstop perhaps. Still. Along with Lindsay's earlier scenes of Emoting, it was not among the strongest moments of the ep. But Danny did also get to wear a lab coat and remind us he's a scientist. With a baseball bat.

    This led to the scene of Stella and Mac managing some minor profiling, another Shiny in the touchscreen clipboard, and then the group meeting mumbo jumbo about tread trace and paint chips and sandblasting and bats and my but I had been working far too many long hours to deal with that sorta expostion linkage terribly well and my eyes were glazing glazing but hey it certainly sounded viable and I woulda accepted a song and dance on the table top if it just woulda moved things on past having to listen to any further scientific rationalization of the Shit that was gonna wrap up the episode. Some eps make that stuff more interesting than others. I was in sorry shape to deal with it. They did plow thru it as quickly as they could though, noticeably so. This was the boggiest part of an otherwise well paced ep.

    And back to the bats. Bat hair. One single bat hair. With Fungus. Uh, holy smoking batshit batman. ...it just wouldn't be CSINY w/o a smoking gun like a bat hair with fungus combined with tread trace beaten out and collected via a baseball bat to pin the perps' location down to enable a raid. Or a fingerprint from a screencapture. But it is more Fun than what is now mundane evidence in bullet casings and the like. I do actually think it was needed, if only to help keep the ep in the realm of the franchise. It was else just a chase ep. Glad that's all we were saddled with in that vein though.

    Onto the raid on the bat-ridden warehouse, suitably dark and eerie and welcoming of shades of grey. Doc was asked to stay outside, in a small but nice moment that did contribute to the ep for simply thinking to include a pragmatic notion like that, and the fact that there were further injuries sustained. The shoot out was action packed and all but also interesting for how each character proceeded. Danny ambushes and beans a guy; Stella captures a guy at gun point; Mac shoots and kills a guy and retrieves Connor; Lindsay's not there, thankyou; and Flack... Flack shoots and wounds a guy, just like Jess did, in fact the same guy Jess did; chases him, finds him, puts it all together, and we see him shoot his pistol. I get the impression people will be talking about how and why the moment was depicted like that, but for the moment I'm just gonna read it as Flack killing the guy. He coulda let the guy just bleed out (it looked like he mighta), or maybe Danny woulda got there if he'd waited. We'll never know.

    The ep was peppered with language that alluded to shades of grey, to doing whatever it takes, to the incident and the hunt afterward being a war, to always getting their man (...and god help him...). I have no doubt it'll go down as a righteous shoot. But I hope it's a complicated righteous shoot, without having those shades of grey simplified to black and white. We'll see if it comes up as an issue other than possibly an internal one for Don. I think part of what this ep did with Flack, was take a guy who, similar to Mac, was pretty cut and dried in his handling of things and launched him into murkier realms. Don's "...I'm fine..." at the end sounded just about anything but, and sounded more like a distancing, nearly a "whatever. Gimme space." I hope we get to see a little of that in S6.

    Mac and Dunbrook finish with another good scene and I liked the dialogue. Mac calling him Robert. Dunbrook suggesting Mac hasn't misjudged his character, nor to take a gesture with the paper as a sign of weakness. Liked the phrasing of a murderer's row of attorneys, and the fact that the exchange ended with "...you be safe alright?" and echoed Flack's parting with Angell's father ("...be good") but with lots of possible subtext. There definitely was some minor posturing going on, but the scene was good.

    The bar scene. I liked that ole doc Hawkes was the one pouring, and it looked like all but Flack were drinking hard liquor too. Glad to see Sid and Adam included, and also that Sid of all of them broke the silence to speak of Jess first. The drive by in slo mo harkened back to how the pe started in the first place, nicely cyclical, and again the sequence and sound was great. Dunno if the shooters are gonna turn out to be related to Dunbrook, to any other ex-members of the paramilitary group, or something else entirely. I actually think it's a pretty good way to have a cliffhangar. It didn't look like anyone was shot outright, but we'll see. I'm simply more interested in the fact that it happened when the whole group was conveniently together, so we don't know if it was one of them or all of them that was a target or if it's gonna turn out to be about the freakin bar owner or something less impressive like that.

    I don't think I have space here to get into budget cuts at the networks and all that. Probably best suited to a different thread or maybe another dear writers letter or something. Won't really get into Flack's shooting and what the fall out of that could or should be either. Flack won't be given much opportunity to be broken or mourning, as a new hunt will no doubt begin immediately, with cops being targeted directly after the loss of one of their family.

    I would have liked to see more of Angell toward the end of the season before losing her outright, but eh, gotta pay a girl to say her lines, and she cost too much...

    Not a truly deep ep, far more about the action and chase than a truly pithy mystery; about the cost already paid rather than the more typical CSI stakes. This ep did pull the season back from the brink. Well, maybe it was it's fall arrest kicking in, and it's life flashing before it's eyes while awaiting being hauled back up. Count me in to see what S6 will bring. Damn them. :p I'll shovel the laughable hype of the 'cliffhanger' aside, and just call that the promo side of things. I will ultimately give it an A-, and I'm pretty sure that ties it for any of the higher grades I've attached to an ep all season.

    It was also a very moving ep, not only for the storyline and how it was realized, but also for Emmanuelle bidding the show farewell. I wish her the best of luck and will be an ever interested and curious supporter of her future projects because of her time on this show.
     
  15. Poppet

    Poppet Police Officer

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    Firstly I am no fan of D/L, but I agree with Laurmarie here, I didn't see Danny and Lindsay focusing on each other at all, I didn't really see and 'D/L scenes' at all. I do think Danny was focusing on Flack in his own way and in a way that Flack would have responded to - I don't see Flack as the emotional outpouring/sharing type.
     

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