Grade 'Sangre Por Sangre'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by vegaslights, Oct 15, 2010.

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How would you grade Sangre Por Sangre?

  1. A+

    10 vote(s)
    31.3%
  2. A

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. A-

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. B+

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%
  5. B

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. B-

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  7. C+

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  8. C

    3 vote(s)
    9.4%
  9. C-

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    yeah, they were quite annoying. i can see why they did it but it's pretty silly really.

    agreed!

    er, so did i, not because i thought it was boring, but because i'd had about 5 hours sleep in 2 days, and was drunk. oops!:rolleyes::lol: i thought it was worth just about staying awake for tho :)

    erm, what did i think - i liked it overall. i'm always happy with mac-centricity, although i do think people have a point about him going in with no backup - he did eventually call for backup but even that was quite a while after he got shot so it was a bit late in the game really.

    i didn't think it was boring but i did think it was quite slow moving - but that's not always a bad thing. i thought it fit olmos' style well, and fit the storyline of an older ex gang member who wanted to stop the violence, it wouldn't have made sense to have it all fast paced and action packed.

    i was really glad that for the first time in ages we got something approaching a more real NY, as opposed to all the glitz we keep getting. i totally see the point someone else made about hispanics/other races getting a bad rap, there does seem to be an element of "oh look, we have some token hispanic characters, let's stick them in a gang and let them shoot each other" - but that said, it is better than not showing the other races and other cultures in the city at all.

    i was also quite glad to see less jo - don't get me wrong, i think jo is wonderful, but as has been said, i think if they overdo her, it'll end up like it did on csi with langston where everyone hated him for overexposure. i think she's great but she doesn't need to be in every scene. now if only they'd realise that the same goes for DL not being permanently together.

    also, what was it with jo and the smiley faces on post it notes?! :confused::wtf::lol:

    overall i liked the ep itself, so i think i'd give it about a B, but... i loved all the mac stuff - i don't give a crap if he thinks he's superman, he looks great and acts it well so for all the lovely macness, my grade's going up to a B+:p:lol:
     
  2. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

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    They had one scene where they found the lipstick on the mirror and Danny said "some kiss and tell" or something like that... but that was case related. There were no blatant reminders of them being married like there often is.

    Hehe... the frowny faced post-it notes over the faces of the dead gang members was a little odd to me too.

    I thought the same thing. It looked neat, but surely there was an easier way. :lol:

    And I too wondered what Mac was talking about when he said an officer was shot because it didn't look to me like Flack got shot. Shot at, perhaps, but not shot.
     
  3. hiphugger17

    hiphugger17 Coroner

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    I quite enjoyed the episode. It was slow paced but (for me) not boring. I often criticize Miami and NY for all the glitz and fast paced action, which frankly it's a lot of the same most of the time, so a different pace was very welcomed. I was really happy to see Edward J. Olmos and was quite pleased with his character and the storyline. Especially pleased that it wasn't the typical war between gangs and the really bad dude who terrorizes the neighborhood. I liked that it was about the gang he created becoming something else and him wanting to end it. It was a different twist to a gang story and I really appreciated that.

    I didn't take offense in them establishing the gang as puerto rican because the reality is that a lot of gangs are hispanic and it's just a NY reality (I'm puerto rican btw). I did appreciate that we saw more cultural diversity which was kind of dissapearing from CSI NY.

    Jo and the smiley faces was amusing and I even liked it more because they gave no explanation as to why she was doing it :lol:. Found it quite funny and I'm really enjoying what Jo/Sela brings to the show. Her scene in the hospital was great too.

    How did Flack not get shot?? :rolleyes: That shooter was quite close to him.

    And oh Mac!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:! He went to take down a convicted felon, whom he knew by evidence just found was the killer and he did it alone with absolutely no back-up. Geez...:rolleyes:

    Gave it an A.

    FRAKKING YEAH, SO SAY WE ALL!! ;)
     
  4. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I gave this one a C.

    It wasn't a great story and the fact that NY only busts out the diversity when they need a large amount of criminals pisses me off, but the awesome performances saved it from being a disaster.

    The team once again worked well - except for Anna Belknap's stupid jump and gasp when Danny went at her with fishzilla thingie.:rolleyes: And Hawkes is still sadly underused.

    Edward James Olmos was amazing and he and Gary together were the perfect adversaries. But I really disliked the return of Super!Mac. I had hoped based on the other episodes that Super!Mac wouldn't make an apperance this season, but I was wrong. Having Mac looking for two gang leaders without assistance was just ridiculous.

    The story and use of persons of color gets an F and the performances (mainly of EJO) gets an A so the episode as a whole gets a C.
     
  5. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    exactly. i could see what she was doing but not really why. i guess maybe it's just her way, but this is the first time she's done it - does she only do it for gang related killings? it was a little weird. and tbh i was quite surprised mac didn't make a comment about it - i can't see him just accepting little smiley faced postit notes all over his board without making some remark or asking about it.

    me too. it was cute and clever but also really superfluous!

    which bit? the bit when the street went off? maybe he got grazed or hit by flying glass and we just didn't see it?
     
  6. Robin

    Robin Prime Suspect

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    Pretty much enjoyable, although it was obvious who the murderer was from the beginning.

    Would think that Mac would be bleeding a little more after getting shot and have a harder time walking, talking, and aiming his weapon. I have a hard time believing he would enter into the situation of apprehending Luther without back up in the first place. But, he is SuperMac.
     
  7. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ haha oh yes, you underestimate the power of the megamac :D
     
  8. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    Finally got to watch this [than gawd for DVR's] Gangland in all it's glory:( Edward James Olmos great as always as the beloved leader of the "neighborhood", and Mac who sent him aways for 15 years, and he was back to his old tricks. He looked him straight in the eyes and lied. Gary Sinise looked so fresh and young, not that he's old, but he looked really good. The ending with Mac alone, and no back up:confused: and getting shot after getting caught up in the explosion. Good riveting episode:bolian:
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  9. La_Guera

    La_Guera Lab Technician

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    Dear Flack,

    BAD FLACK, no biscuit! What is wrong with you, being all stupidly heroic? I'm still amazed you didn't take a few in the legs and chest. Bad, bad Flack. ~snuggles~

    Dear Mac,

    Ahhahaha! Wrong again! And for bonus fail, you shot and killed the man who saved your life. Fail, how does it taste, you smug turd?

    And I'll have a more comprehensive review of CSI:NY tomorrow.
     
  10. Country233

    Country233 Police Officer

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    Why yes I quite agree. I will say the lighting crew on CSI NY does an awesome job in making all of the cast look good. But my eyes are always on Mac :)
     
  11. Elwood21

    Elwood21 Pathologist

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    What to say on this one. *shrug*

    Pretty typical and anonymous.

    Not so much so as to call it a blip on the upward trend S7 seems to be establishing. Just not an episode that shone, and another that won't prove terribly memorable. Perhaps an overly Orchestrated, Ponderous and Deliberate hour of Storytelling. That includes the structure, using the final confrontation to intro and filling in the rest, the prefacing tag line "a lot can change in a day," the pacing, the compressed chronology and case progression to fit, the later sequencing of scenes w/team characters to arrive at the confirmation of the killer, the usual forfeiture of certain protocols for drama, the split screen format, the final take down(s), and even the story itself. I hate cliffhangers, but this all felt so surface based I think it mighta done well to have had more time available, or a larger build up scattered across a few episodes. That's also an odd thing to suggest, given that there were times where the show felt exceptionally sluggish. Not sure how to articulate this. The form was prominent. The content was such I wanted more; more depth, or more time, or more intensity.

    Was still a decent ep. Just wasn't one that sucked me in to the point where such things weren't noticeable. I also rather felt left on the sidelines, external, un-impacted, which was a bit dissatisfying, given all that the show managed to broach, if that makes sense.

    Also didn't get to see enough of Luther to feel conflicted about him, or for him, his motives and his methods, etc., didn't really get to feel enough resonating from the past & days in common between him & Mac, and therefore also not what their present interaction was really wagering. All the more cos I also didn't get the feeling that there was a barely suppressed likelihood that a gang-war could be provoked into erupting.

    *shrug* I enjoyed the Luther/Mac scenes. But, for all the peripheral dancing by two key figures, it's like the surface had only been scratched, and then rubbed out altogether and too soon. On the one hand, it kept the ep a team based progression. On the other, it didn't seem to really take advantage of a Luther/Mac set up (not to mention EJO/GS). In that respect, perhaps a bit more material devoted mighta enticed me to invest a bit more. I shrug again. Tricky balance, for sure :p. Was also admittedly disappointed to see Luther killed; there was part of me that wondered about the potential for him to be available as a somewhat undetermined & ambiguous recurring/revisited character.

    Anyhoo. Just running thru it.

    I liked that there managed to be infused a bit of flavor and grit, and less glitz and shiny than the usual.

    It was impossible not to suss out early on whodunnit & why :p, but leaving off confirming it till later was still sorta engaging for the trip.

    Was ridiculously happy to see Sid back in an episode :D. Sid & Sheldon, additionally fun. Not enough, though. Plz to be working on that.

    There were a few fun lines. Flack: "...this is why they take your credit card when you check in." Given SW's comments in interviews on script and sea legs, "2-bit three block drug dealer also got a smile from me. I also enjoyed the early Mac/Luther scene, "Every few months I found one of my men in the mess hall" / "I didn't want you to get lonely."

    There were a few cheese lines. Danny: "Someone's gotta kiss and tell."

    I gotta say, I <3 Jo and her oversized UnSmiley sticky tabs :lol:. Dunno why, exactly. Just, a Snickerlol there. In its own way it was a nudge similar to "Gooey" in its contrast :p, and the show, somehow, resisted the urge to narrate the moment. Lovely ;). I like it as an element of her personality, I like it as a NY fun tidbit to take or leave. (I've also just caught up on a few eps of Mentalist, and so couldn't help a certain lateral association in seeing red smileys :lol:. It did in one respect look as if Red John's second cousin's former roomate were a wee bit saddened and identifying those he wasn't able to get to personally. So Sry To Have Missed You. Have a Nice Day).

    I also kinda liked that Mac was written to reference a bit of presumed old school and shades of grey with Luther. A certain dialogue and understanding indicated, down to "gifts" of Remorseful Young Shooters, one's word and a shake of the hand. What was also kinda fun was wondering which among them thought they were shaking hands with a respective devil.

    ...*sigh.* ...DL. Cut. The. Chord. Split up the convenient commute. Perchance one of these days we will be graced with an ep where Danny and Lindsay do not by default appear at all scenes together.

    I thought it was odd and amusing that the whole mirror was brought in to process the lipstick print. I suppose if they could have they woulda chiselled out the wall to process the handprint. OgeeWait. I think they did. That whole, ridiculous, melting gloves thing wif Lindsay. Glad she didn't waste the nitrile ones. Not even cute. Just laugh out loud wtf :lol::p. Can buy a jug of liquid latext for a few bucks or myriad other casting materials, and she's melting gloves. My how clever & innovative :lol:. F*cking hell. I'd say that even if it were Adam who had done so. I'm just glad they didn't write him such an inane moment of Impressive Processing For The Sake Of It. It wasn't such an irresistable nugget that the show couldna done something other with the time. Un-necessity is the mother of a lab-based Montana-MacGuyver? Really? Just. Another shake o' the head on that bit.

    Jo & Danny started to have a fun scene with the early ID of Purple Hazel. Dang but AB is really quite the buzzkill.

    People may rightly pick on Mac's final scene w/o back up, and it certainly got a bemused tweak of an eyebrow and eyerolling shake of the head from me :lol::p. But I will equally say that Flack's scene with Hazel and the attempted hit in the street while picking her up gets a few similar nitpickings from me. Detectives have partners. Except where casting costs kill one off. Flack, as Mac, shouldna been on his own. Detectives get unmarked cars. Uniforms get squad cars. (I think. Could be mistaken). I also find it difficult to think Flack emerged utterly unscathed from the incident, 50+ rounds pumped into the car, at such short range. Not a nick or scratch. Even his hair remained firmly in place :p. But. Evs. SuperMac we're used to. In his own way, Super(Lucky)Flack we're used to as well, given the chases and various leaping take downs he also manages :p. Was still a nice ratchett scene to raise the stakes. Something that Jo's hospital encounter also did. And Flack scenes are always welcome.

    Given that each had their moments, I also thought that the ep didn't scream ThisIsA!MacEp in the way I dreaded it might, after hearing about the past link between Mac & Luther in spoilers. I also think the final confrontation was so Moody & Orchestrated, past vs present, brother vs. brother, cop vs killer(s), Mac & Luther's link, meant that it was never gonna be a sirens blaring all out NYPD raid, or even Mac accompanied by one of the team, no matter how much more sense it woulda made :lol:. With such deliberate bookending, the earlier pattern of meetings between them, and how it was intended to conclude (as I read it), I wasn't as bothered by Mac being written to head in to see Luther solo as I otherwise would be. Was malleted to fit the Deliberate narrative & structure. Same again for Rick shooting Mac, Luther shooting Rick, and Mac shooting Luther. I'm sure some will revel and delight in berating Mac accordingly :p. Meh. Luther always had an agenda and I also doubt he'd willingly return to prison, even in the hands of a Fair Man after accomplishing what he'd set out to. We'll never know. I'm glad that the writers resisted giving Mac a closing monologue, and I was ambivalent on Luther's. I liked that the ep closed in shades of grey, a place Mac hasn't been portrayed in awhile. The show's definitely dabbling in some less familiar waters where he's concerned, and all the more interesting for it. A point in NY's favor.

    Guess Mac he won't be playing bass for awhile... :lol:

    Adam and Fishzilla were fun. DL and Fishzilla weren't. What can I say. Just the weekly affirmation of irksome. I also love that Adam knows a guy. Who knows a guy. Who.. etc, etc. I'd just love to know how Adam knows so many people. He and Sid. Awesome :lol:.

    As mentioned, I thought Jo and Hazel had a good scene in the hospital. I also think that the way Jo was written was also more restrained, in a good way. I do love her moments, and I'm mostly liking what SW has done with them, I appreciated that they've backed off the Uber a tad with Jo.

    The 'splodey scene, and Mac's kaboom dive, looked on a shoestring and/or a few corners tweaked. A little oddly depicted, given the choice to do it. In that respect the street shooting scene won out on cutting & style points. Just, not seamless, is all. Nitpicky, mebbe. Just wot I saw. Stunt guy inna bathrobe at the start of the ep musta been another interesting night's work too :p. Was smoother in the integration though.

    By the time Lindsay was melting lab supplies, one unavoidably knew how the rest of the ep was gonna play out. Further confirmed by Fernando turning himself in and requesting Mac specifically, echoing Luther from atop the show. Leaving two brothers... yada :lol:. Not to mention the casting. Yancy's familiar enough I was expecting his character would figure significantly in the gang in Luther's absence. What was a nice change of pace for NY was that both brothers, Luther within his Code and Rick in his Business, were responsible/guilty for serious & substantial crimes, that their activities weren't polarized in Luther's return. Also liked that the end was visually shadowy as well to echo it.

    The end sequence was striking, but while I did like the lighting and mood, I hafta say I found it slightly amusing to see watery reflections & fx, wondering how and where the sources of light and pools of water were supposed to be to produce them. But still visually really nice.

    Coulda done without the end synopsis spoken by Luther, but NY must ensure we knew why he did what he did. It was nice that there was otherwise no Cute ending tacked on as subsequent commentary. I didn't feel left hanging for it. I did want to feel it had more impact, even if it was framed as a phyrric victory within a larger nihilism, yada.

    Call it a C+.

    The ep touched on a lotta things, packed a whole lot in, still somehow managed to feel a bit boggy in places, and superficial, instead of intense and smoldering, if that's what they were going for. In one sense, I liked that the show came first, and that EJO/GS weren't front and centre at the expense of it. In another sense, the story and interaction weren't really quite what I was hoping for in the pair of them facing off.

    I came away from this ep like Flack's hair, largely unmoved :p. An average ep, but also I think a very ambitious one, which I appreciate. I still think NY is moving in the right direction.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  12. bill_az

    bill_az Rookie

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    I think you missed the double irony of the end. Luther is killing his gang's leaders because they have become the antithesis to the early days of his gang. But in order to return his gang to its prior state, he must use the same unsavory methods he decries.

    Second irony: Mac shoots Luther because he has a gun pointed at him. Except it's not pointed him--it's pointed at his underboss, who is standing behind Mac and is about to shoot him. Luther is intentionally saving Mac's life, knowing Mac will return fire and kill him.

    So perhaps MT is not as much of a "smug turd" as you may think.
     
  13. Jade_Nolan

    Jade_Nolan CSI Level One

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    Relatively briefly:

    thing #1) My eyes got as big as the tv, my heart rate instantaneously jumped, the hugest grin appeared on my face, and i went from couch to the floor a mere 3-4ft from said tv at warp speed at seeing the intro and that Mac was injured!! :D =:drool::devil: I've been waiting for him to be shot for aaaaaaaaaaages!!! in fact, very bad me highly wished it could have been more of a significant bullet wound.... even like in his upper arm where there are much larger blood vessels, precipitating far more serious bleeding and an actual risk to life.... :devil:

    which brings me to thing #2) I've kinda gathered that there's a bit of quibble over how either "unaffected" he was by getting shot or that it should have been "worse". I beg to differ. He was shot in the top of his forearm. First off, there really aren't any major blood vessels running through there like in the upper arm. Second, if he was shot with say a 9mm, while there could have been a bit more active bleeding, trust me, bullet holes of that caliber don't bleed all that much unless it's very close range which results in greater cavitation and tearing of the tissue. Now, if that handgun was a .45, yeah, i would've expected his arm to be completely out of commission because it would have been broken from the impact of the bullet. But the gun definitely looked more like a 9mm to me. Additionally, even if his arm had been broken and all that from getting shot, he still would have had to lose a massive amount of blood for his other motor and cognitive functions to be affected and impeded. I thought the whole thing wasn't too far off realistic actually....

    thing #3) Mac my boy, you really shouldn't have gone in there by yourself...! :guffaw: yes, i had a good shake-of-the-head and laugh when i saw him enter the warehouse alone!! :guffaw: silly Mac! :lol:

    thing #4) I thought Jo's sad faces for the dead gang members were hilarious!!! :lol: I quite like the roll-with-whatever-happens casual attitude and humour she seems to be bringing. It makes a nice contrast to Mac's intensity, and lightens and relaxes him in a subtle yet very obvious way. I like it :D

    thing #5) DL - *gagagagagagag* there is nothing that can be done or written to salvage a scene with both of them in it......

    thing #6) i.hate.splitscreen. :angryrazz:

    thing #7) i also hate action slomo! :angryrazz: that whole little bit would've been much more impactful and awesomer had they done slomo of the debris and glass falling on Mac after he was thrown to the ground, with the sound cut out/dimmed/filtered to mimic the loss of hearing he would've had, especially since they had him bring his hand to his ear/side of his head..... :rolleyes:

    thing #8) YAY for non-high-end crime!!!!! :D it's about time the grittier, seedier side of NYC made some sort of come-back!

    thing #9) Why do abandoned warehouses always drip water, no matter what floor one is on or what the weather is like outside? :wtf: just sayin'.....
     
  14. Grissom rules

    Grissom rules CSI Level Two

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    I was expecting to be quite worse to be honest.So I am glad they proved me wrong!!!:)

    I generally don't like gang stories in the CSI shows but that was a great one.
    Mac's chemistry with Olmos was also obvious.Their interactions were awesome!!!

    I was irritaded though because of Mac's heroic actions once again.I was pissed off when he went to confront the two brothers by himself...What did the writers think?:brickwall:
    I have a feeling that a second Horatio is borning.:(

    B+ for me!!:)
     
  15. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    thanks doc ;)

    agreed!!

    yeah, why IS that? it's so true!
     

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