Episode 7x20 - Wolfe In Sheep's Clothing ***CONTAINS SPOILERS***

Discussion in 'CSI: Miami' started by squinn1201, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. CSIMandy

    CSIMandy Lab Technician

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    ^ I would've loved a scene like that too. I can picture Eric anc Calleigh reacting that way if they found out what Ryan had been through.
     
  2. Hollyyo

    Hollyyo CSI Level Two

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    I think Ryan is the type of person to keep things from people, but if poked hard enough (just go weird image of Calleigh poking him...) then he'll spill the beans. If Eric asked him what those "extenuating circumstances" were, then I know he would have told them the whole story. I bet you he didn't even tell Horatio about the torture.

    That one part when he was like, "Just some family stuff..." I was like, Well that should tip her off right there! He has no family! :)
     
  3. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    ^^What should have tipped them off was the fact that the Russian Mob was targeting all of them the day before, he was acting suspicious, making mistakes, & had missing teeth & a cut lip :wtf: Not too smart for being "investigators".
     
  4. Yumi696

    Yumi696 Rookie

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    ^ That would be the writers' faults... :D

    Would be great if they had a little scene where Ryan told all though...
     
  5. greatfan

    greatfan Captain

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    That would be great ,and I hope to see some followup. I really didn't like how it ended with Ryan,Calleigh and Eric.
     
  6. hiphugger17

    hiphugger17 Coroner

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    I didn't like that it ended so bitter either. I really wanted Ryan to be able to explain what happened and see Cal and Eric's reaction. But then I thought that leaving it they way they did was the writer's way of emphasizing Ryan's "they want to break us" at the end. It had more of a punch this way than if they had patched things up. So I'm just hoping that later on we do get a scene were we see them explaining and apologizing cause it really should happen.

    As for Eric, he has always had a bit of a temper and has never been very fond of Ryan so it was easy for the writers to make him the intolerant, angry one. Still I believe that deep down he is a nice guy and that once he gets all the facts he'll feel pretty ashamed and stupid for his behaviour. I'm sorry I'm an Eric fan and always feel the need to defend him :lol:.
     
  7. Wasabi Power

    Wasabi Power CSI Level One

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    Eric is a great guy. As Ryan's actions are always highlighted upon, so is Eric's temper. These things are just part of the characters that the writers put emphasis on. We know who they are as a whole, so no worries.

    If Eric finds out about what happened to Ryan later, he will surely apologize or do whatever to make it right. Though his temper flares at times, we've also known him to be able to be humble and make amends in a sincere manner. It's one of his most attractive features. [Just like how Ryan bends the rules sometimes, we also know him to be doing it for a good cause (or because H has hatched some secret scheme with him again.)]
    Haha, I guess the two have a lot in common as far as story concepts go.
     
  8. squinn1201

    squinn1201 Rookie

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    Was it just me or was that opening scene longer than usual? I agree with whoever said it earlier that the scenes with E&C and Ryan paralleled each other. (Eric waking up from bed, Ryan waking up from being tortured, calleigh spitting out water, ryan spitting out blood/salt water, etc.) I thought of that too. I think the writers did that on purpose and the fact that they kept switching back and forth between the two different scenes added to the suspense.) This was just all together an award winning episode!
     
  9. CSIMandy

    CSIMandy Lab Technician

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    He would. Eric lost his temper with Ryan after the interrogation but later calmed down and told Ryan everyone makes mistakes. He would definately apologize and understand why Ryan did what he did.
     
  10. Princess_Laurie

    Princess_Laurie Witness

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    I thought this was a great episode! In the beginning, I especially liked the comparing the Eric&Calleigh stuff with Ryan. And ouch, man. Those cuts must have hurt real bad.
    I didn't really get why Ryan didn't tell Eric and Calleigh what had happened, I mean after he told Horatio. It's gonna get out eventually.
    Something about this episode made me like Tara. I haven't quite figured out what it is, but maybe it was just her not having more than three lines.
    The ending was nice, Billy hugging his father. :) And he and Ryan had that 'hair-ruffle' thingy that was absolutely adorable.

    I only have one complaint:
    Where in the world was Natalia? She got like.... three seconds in the entire episode! And she didn't even get any dialogue. Well done, TPTB. Just when I thought it would be impossible to cut down on her screentime even more, you proved me wrong. As always.

    Other than that, I really liked it. :)
     
  11. Hollyyo

    Hollyyo CSI Level Two

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    Maybe Ryan was embarrassed about the whole thing and didn't want to tell anybody. A lot of people do that kind of thing when AWFUL stuff happens to them. It's just a human reaction for some people. Maybe he will tell them eventually, but I can sorta see why he didn't if they were going in that direction. If he doesn't tell them soon though, they won't ever trust him. And the show will go to poo. I know that sounds a little extreme, but what kind of a cop show can you have with one team member be distrusted for four friggin' years???
     
  12. Wasabi Power

    Wasabi Power CSI Level One

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    I almost feel like Ryan just kinda wanted to forget what happened. He still has to deal with the ramifications that come with being manhandled by some fugly dude. Maybe he didn't want sympathy, maybe he was afraid they'd think of him differently? I don't know. :confused:
     
  13. luvcsimiami

    luvcsimiami Hit and Run

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    Hello All,
    I’m new to the board and this is my third time delurking on a thread that really catches my attention. Of course, after my comments a great many of you may want me to go back to lurking and stay there :)

    I’m reading all the comments about the last two episodes and agree with those that say Jonathan Togo did a great job! I’m not a big fan of the Ryan character but will give him his props when they are deserved and he knocked it out of the park on both of these episodes. That being said I have to ask a question here as I see from a lot of the comments on this and many other threads why is there so much hate towards Eric Delko? I’m asking because it seems like there have been some serious memory lapses going on regarding how exactly Ryan and Eric got to where they are now.

    My favorite on the show was Dr. Woods and Eric ran a very close second. He’s arrogant, hot-tempered, feisty and sometimes you want to slap him silly for some of his attitudes. On the other hand he can be sensitive, caring, compassionate, protective and he will go to bat for any member of his team….even Ryan. I just find it interesting that a great amount of Ryan and Eric fans alike are so down on Eric and most especially because of this last episode. Bear with me here as this is kind of long but I do have a point and I’m going to add my two cents to the furor here.

    Many have stated that Eric is always down on Ryan and forever yelling at the guy. Not a great way to handle someone you work with everyday but I will say Ryan has done a lot to earn the attitude he gets from Eric. I find it interesting that people seem to have forgotten what caused the animosity. Remember when Ryan first joined the team in S3? I adored his character and thought he would be a great replacement for Speed. The team seemed pretty accepting, including Eric, who was pretty nice to him at the beginning. All that changed mid-season when Ryan in an effort to gain approval from Horatio took evidence Eric found, gave it to H, took credit for finding it and then didn’t even bother to apologize about it when Eric called him on it. During the same case they had to identify a tire tread and it was Calleigh, the queen of the gentle putdown, who informed Ryan that car identification was Delko’s specialty. Wolfe didn’t want to face Eric so he started looking for it on his own. Eric came in and helped him find the tread without being asked. He did hold on to the evidence so he could take it to H himself this time but the point is he helped him even after Ryan did what he did. This episode…sorry don’t have the name handy is when all the fighting started and when I began to thoroughly start to dislike Ryan.

    Let’s fast forward to season 4 when Delko was with Natalia. I refuse to call it a relationship because it was anything but that IMHO. Ryan manipulated the situation to his advantage by going to Delko and telling him about a party he wasn’t invited to by his own girlfriend. Ryan then asked if Delko would mind if he asked Natalia out. When Delko rather crassly said "you’re cleared for landing…" in response to Ryan’s plane reference first, I might add, Ryan took the tale to Natalia. He was sure to tell Natalia what Delko said but conveniently left out his part in the conversation and what he said to prompt it. Does that make Eric right? No, but it sure doesn’t make Ryan look any better since he instigated the whole conversation.

    Then there was Delko’s sister Marisol’s who was sick. Remember the episode "Nailed"? I know most Ryan fans will because I’m sure they were cheering when Ryan lit into Delko without asking for or wanting any explanations I might add. There was the whole "Delko time" comment etc. Delko was late to scenes and running himself ragged because of his sister and he hadn’t bothered to tell anyone what was going on. Now, if you want to talk about a contrast let’s talk about a contrast. Eric had a great reason for letting the team down. He had a dying family member he was trying to keep alive for as long as possible. Not exactly the most open guy in the world, he didn’t bother to share that news with anyone either. This was the season where Calleigh was pretty much disengaged from everyone but she didn’t ask Eric if anything was wrong either. She just told him "whatever you’ve got going on with that girl you need to do it on your on time." Eric nods in affirmation and then says "Before I lose my job?" and Calleigh responds "Before you lose respect." Imagine the surprise of the team later, including Ryan, when they all find out his flaky behavior had to do with a dying relative. Did they show us the interaction after the fact? They didn’t but we did get to see Eric put aside all differences to race a team member to the hospital. We also got to see these two guys come to some sort of understanding of each other. IMHO I would say the "Nailed" episode is where these two guys finally started an uneasy alliance.

    That doesn’t mean that their interactions were any less charged. The first time I ever got an indication that Ryan actually cared anything about Eric was when Eric got shot and he was yelling at the suspect for "shooting his friend" I mean was I the only one shocked by the statement and thinking, you guys are friends – who knew?

    In "A Wolfe in Sheeps Clothing" I found that I was pretty sympathetic to Wolfe’s plight. However, never once did I feel like Eric was out of line with his attitude. It’s no different than the smart aleck, know-it-all, downright accusatory attitude he would be getting from Ryan if the situation was reversed. That’s already been shown in previous episodes.

    "Head Case" - Ryan – "That’s our job, Eric. We solve crimes. The guy is guilty."

    A classic case of Wolfe acting like a know-it-all and not having all the facts. Now was the guy guilty? Sure. But he did it at gunpoint duress and with the aid of a traumatic memory from childhood fueling him on. Unfortunately, Ryan was so intent on giving Eric a come down that he didn’t notice that his friend was seriously identifying with the guy because of what he had been through.

    Ryan got more chances in the episode to signal to someone that something wasn’t quite right. But the huge difference between Ryan and his co-workers that worked to his detriment is this: He’s a busybody and he doesn’t respect other people’s privacy. Ryan likes to get into people’s business and spread gossip if "Flight Risk" is any indication. Frankly, it’s not his business who his co-workers are dating and why he thinks he needs to know is beyond me. The fact is he thinks he needs to know everything that is going on and his co-workers are not like that.

    In "The Deluca Motel" episode, Ryan once again decides to stick his oar in to find out what Delko was into when Eric wouldn’t tell anyone why he was living in a hotel. He takes information from Eric’s room and then goes to H with it. Who ever so nicely tells Ryan that maybe they should butt out. Ryan then tells H that Eric is acting like he did when he was gambling. When Eric finds out and calls Ryan on his meddling, Ryan asks him if someone is gunning for him and Eric doesn’t hedge. He tells Ryan his suspicions and doesn’t bother to deny that he’s in trouble any longer.

    In epi 720 Ryan is purposely circumventing an investigation, albeit for a good reason, and ignoring every chance he is given to tell someone, any team member, that he’s in trouble even after being asked twice. Eric asked him what was going on with him before he rips into him in the interrogation room. These guys are smart enough to figure out a way to save a child without tipping the bad guys to what they are doing but even so Ryan made the call not to fess up when given the opportunity.

    Needless to say Eric and Calleigh are less than enthused about his handing them the bullet casing at the end. They both had every right to be angry. Several posters have said Eric went off on Ryan and didn’t give him a chance to explain. I would say watch the episode again. Eric is the first one to ask Ryan why when Ryan hands them the bullet. It takes Ryan a heartbeat to answer and things go downhill from there. Was Eric too impatient to wait for an answer? Yes, he was. But Ryan didn’t make it any better by being evasive and saying there were "extenuating circumstances." Ryan walking in and throwing a key piece of evidence on the table without a plausible explanation ready sets the stage for an explosion. What I find interesting is that Eric is somehow the one that is being viewed as the villain and most fans are pissed at him! He’s not responsible for Ryan getting tortured and I think both he and Calleigh had every reason to be angry at Ryan when he doesn’t have anything else to tell them but it was extenuating circumstances.

    Sorry for the long diatribe but I felt that poor Eric needed some defense. He’s not perfect by any means but he’s definitely not a villain or the first class jerk people are making him out to be.

    Remember Eric – The guy who went to Frank Tripp first about the evidence he found on Tripp. When he didn’t get what he expected he went to Calleigh for advice and then he ambushed Frank in the car to get what he needed to exclude him. He didn’t jump to conclusions that the guy was a dirty cop he knew there had to be a valid explanation. I think someone else mentioned what H said to Eric at the end of the episode when he told him to let him know when he’s going to watch someone’s back so he can watch his.

    Remember Eric – The guy who helped a lady with a child who had lost her husband by doing odd jobs for her, and got seriously beaten up because he stumbled on a chop shop. He inadvertently put an active investigation in jeopardy but he did whatever he could to fix it, got it resolved, and then explained to H that he wanted to give back wherever he could because of the things they see on the job everyday.

    Remember Eric – The guy who can admit when he’s wrong or he’s made a mistake (i.e. telling Calleigh that maybe Jake wasn’t such a bad guy after all, or telling Calleigh hey I accidentally ratted you out to Stetler – no less than two minutes after he did it, sneezing on evidence and admitting to not knowing how to say that he did it, but finally getting out anyway…)

    Remember Eric - The guy who apologized to Ryan for not being at the scene with him and that’s why Ryan ended up with a nail in his eye (can someone tell me when Ryan has ever admitted to being wrong about anything. Not being funny here, I seriously don’t remember that Ryan has ever apologized to Eric for anything that he has done or said to him that wasn’t cool)

    I could on and on but the point is Eric is not the first class jerk people are making him out to be. Nor do I think that is he a whiner or a sap as I’ve seen others say. Injury or no he’s always been pretty sensitive and usually more so to others when he thinks they are being done wrong. What I like about Eric is that you never have to guess where you stand. You know right up front and sometimes that’s refreshing! The major difference in the new Eric and the old Eric is that the old Eric was a whole lot more vocal. I feel like we got a lot of the old Eric in these last two episodes.

    I don’t think Ryan is a first class jerk either and this is coming from a fan who isn’t a big fan of Ryan. I do think Ryan could run circles around Eric when it comes to lessons on manipulation. That’s one of the things I really don’t like about Ryan is that every single time you start to trust him he does something to make you change your mind. I have to say that in these last two episodes I really was feeling for him and hated the last scene between the three team members. I do hope that TPTB shows the make up of these three in the next episode because I think it’s necessary.

    Thanks for letting me rant and this is by no means meant to criticize anyone. It was more of a defense of a character who I feel is being unfairly maligned on this board in several threads. I also think a lot of it has to do with the E/C ship and while I’m a fan of it there are several folks that aren’t. As a result I think the Eric and Calleigh characters are being overly criticized, and being seriously and unfairly misjudged but that discussion is for another thread:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  14. vsuga

    vsuga Rookie

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    Ryan seems prideful, it's been my experience that prideful people have a hardtime asking for help until it's too late. Lucky for Ryan SuperH notice before that even happened.
     
  15. texmex327

    texmex327 Pathologist

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    So I just watched the episode again and noticed a few things I missed out before:

    Did you guys see the way that Tara was looking at Ryan after her & Calleigh found out he ran up 30 flights of stairs. I think she was impressed. (Thank goodness, because I don't like Tara looking at Calleigh's Eric. :lol:)

    Eric & I have the same phone. :thumbsup:

    Calleigh really did try to get Ryan to tell her what was going on. Poor guy, I felt bad for him because he really was put in a difficult situation.

    I just really wonder how this will all play out. I am sure he is going to be punished one way or another.
     

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