"Miscarriage Of Justice" Discussion *SPOILERS*

[happyharper13]

Originally Posted by NightWitch

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Yeah - the more I see/hear of her, the more I can't stand her. I really didn't like her when she first came on and I like her less and less with each episode. I think people with little children who kill themselves are selfish to some extent, but then again, I also think people who judge those who attempt/commit suicide fail to understand the severity of depression and how hopeless it can make one feel. I think those people are very judgmental and quite ruthless at times... depression is a serious mental illness. I'm currently studying mental illnesses for my Master's degree and so many of them are just brushed off as nothing - they should just pick themselves up and go on. Yeah, well that's very easy to say. And also very judgmental. That comment of hers just pissed me off!!! Maybe if he had had little kids, I could see some credence to it, but he didn't. He had no one vulnerable to depend on him. I can't stand Riley - I hope they get rid of her. She's nothing but a cheap replacement for Sara and Sara would NEVER have said anything like that!!!

Nah... I think she's just an idiot.

IMO, I think it's very clear that someone important to her committed suicide. I just can't imagine TPTB putting that angle in if that wasn't the case. Not to mention that we definitely saw spoilers indicating something like this happening with Riley. I really like her character and I think that the angle was developed very tastefully.

Just like it's unfair to judge a depressed or suicidal person for their ailment, I think it's equally unfair to judge Riley as 'just an idiot.' You said that people wrongfully assume that those with forms of depression "should just pick themselves up and go on" and I feel like the same type of expectations are being set for Riley in this case. Clearly, someone close to her committed suicide and the event had a traumatic effect on her and impacted her perspective greatly. Her comment about suicide as selfish is, IMO, less the result of her "being an idiot" and more the result of her judgment being clouded by grief, which I think is quite understandable. For all we know, someone she loves could have committed suicide in the last week. Traumatic experience impact people's judgment and attitudes, making them say and do things that they wouldn't otherwise do. I really think people should cut Riley some slack on this one.

[myfuturecsi]

Originally Posted by vegaslights

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You're right. Sara was dull and probably would have said something worse.

That's a good comeback there vegas! Love it!

I don't think it's fair to compare characters. Sara was pretty messed up in her own way. Riley's got issues but then gees, don't they all?

And anger is common when someone you love commits suicide. It's not stupid or being an idiot, it's simply anger.

[Dizzney]

I like Riley the more I see her. I definitely like her more than I ever liked Sara. And it is true, everyone has issues and everyone deals with them in their own way. I see Riley as a very independent woman. I definitely think she lost a loved one to suicide.

[Adzix]

ep seemed ok, even though i didn't pay too much attention to it. i liked the twist at the end, and the team bonding.

[csiguy]

didn't pay much attention to what?

[csiguy]

i thought it was a good episode. great music. loved the teaser. Ray was good. growing on me. riley's scene with mrs. humphries was very strong. i wonder who killed themselves in riley's life. hmmm. cant wait to find out.

[Speedystokesgirl]

Originally Posted by MacsGirlMel

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I still think there's too much Langston focus...I know Fishburne is the big name now but I hope there are a few eps where he's not center stage. ALthough actually it was a little bit toned down this time.

Do we know now why a CSI 1 was testifying in court btw?

Just gotta face it, LF is the male lead and he is going to have a lot of screen time. Maybe it will taper off a little, but don't hold your breath.

As for him testifying in court, it doesn't matter what your level is or how long you've been on the job, if you investigated the case you can be called to testify.

I liked the episode. It feels like the old CSI. I really loved the scene at the end with the whole team. See, just like the old CSI.

I'm with Catherine, I would've killed my husband not the woman.

And, of course, I love Nick being a teacher.

Riley, nope still not liking her, but I'm guessing that someone in her family committed suicide or she attempted it herself.

Overall, a good episode.

[~Sarah~]

I thought it was pretty good. I agree with the fact that something happened in Riley's past that they aren't letting us in on.

[kaylyne]

My longer Summary:
* * * * * * * * * * *
- Teamwork… makes the dream work! Awwwww.
- still too much Ray
- my biggest gripe here is why Ray, a CSI level 1, seems to be the one doing all of the evidence on a case that involves a politician.
- no Wendy. Boo!
- Cath as a ‘cop in action’ at the beginning! Sweet!!!
- too much Ray
- there seemed to be too much evidence that wasn’t checked over in the original case – the death of Amber Jones.
- interesting background stuff finally starting to show with Riley now.
- no funny Brass or Hodges comments. That kind of threw me off.
- loved Supervisor Cath in this one – especially the scene in her office with Ray. It was almost like she was giving him a pep talk, as well as trying to get him to see the ‘evidence’ side of his testimony instead of how it seemed visually.
- too much Ray

- another thing that just came to mind as I'm re-watching this: as Catherine's talking to Ray in her office, she says "a confession is...just words" That SO reminded me of Lady H to Gil: "an apology is just words".

My full review can be found here

[GregNickRyanFan]

Originally Posted by vegaslights

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You're right. Sara was dull and probably would have said something worse.

I honestly do think the two of them are alike in some ways. They both have issues from their pasts, only we don't know Riley's yet (the writers have said she does have some). Sara's comment in Nesting Dolls (which IMO was more severe than what Riley said in tonight's ep) was triggered by the case bringing back bad memories about her parents, so I don't blame her too much for snapping. I do think though that Riley has a reason to say people who committ suicide are selfish. After all, when the widow said "you don't understand", Riley's response was "actually, I do" and her facial expression said to me that she was telling the truth about that. And she even added "some people just can't be saved". The tone in her voice said she was speaking from experience. She lowered her voice and her voice was near breaking. That suggests that she's had experience with someone close to her committing suicide.

What she said was not inappropriate at all since she was only making a personal observation to a friend. Now if she'd said that very same thing to the widow then that would have been inappropriate. But she didn't say anything like that and when the widow asked about the note and what her hubby said in it, she just told her that he said he loved her which I thought was very proper of her.

IMO, I think it's very clear that someone important to her committed suicide. I just can't imagine TPTB putting that angle in if that wasn't the case. Not to mention that we definitely saw spoilers indicating something like this happening with Riley. I really like her character and I think that the angle was developed very tastefully.

Just like it's unfair to judge a depressed or suicidal person for their ailment, I think it's equally unfair to judge Riley as 'just an idiot.' You said that people wrongfully assume that those with forms of depression "should just pick themselves up and go on" and I feel like the same type of expectations are being set for Riley in this case. Clearly, someone close to her committed suicide and the event had a traumatic effect on her and impacted her perspective greatly. Her comment about suicide as selfish is, IMO, less the result of her "being an idiot" and more the result of her judgment being clouded by grief, which I think is quite understandable. For all we know, someone she loves could have committed suicide in the last week. Traumatic experience impact people's judgment and attitudes, making them say and do things that they wouldn't otherwise do. I really think people should cut Riley some slack on this one.

Here, here. I totally agree with everything you said.

I don't think it's fair to compare characters. Sara was pretty messed up in her own way. Riley's got issues but then gees, don't they all?

And anger is common when someone you love commits suicide. It's not stupid or being an idiot, it's simply anger.

Exactly! They all have issues. We all do. I also agree that anger is a common response to suicide.

I'm guessing that someone in her family committed suicide or she attempted it herself.

That would be quite the twist if the latter were true, especially considering her comment about suicide. I am guessing though that it was a sibling (perhaps a twin) or possibly an ex bf or hubby. In her first ep she said "my parents are both shrinks" which suggests that both are still alive.

Ray was on a lot tonight and actually had a couple more scenes than last week, but somehow it didn't seem as much of an overload. I guess it's because it was more balanced out. Every one of the CSIs had plenty of screentime this week. I was actually suprised that we only saw Hodges once. That was weird. Henry had two scenes, that was unusual. It kind of annoyed me that they mentioned sending something to ballistics, but we didn't get to see Bobby.

[blackflag]

I thought this ep was so-so. Both Invisible Evidence and Mea Culpa were much better.

- I'm warming up to Riley more than I am Ray and that not saying much since I dislike both of them.

- TPTB's glaring mistake? They wanted a big name star as the male lead and they made him level 1.

- What is a level 1 doing investigating a Congressman for murder. Yes Catherine signed off on the evidence but this should have been a high level case and should have had a higher level CSI doing the work. The credibility of the lab was at stake with Langston on the stand. (that is something that was used all the time in previous seasons)

- From someone who's been in more jury pools than I care to admit - How did Catherine get a gun in the courthouse let alone Humphreys(? think I have the right person)? The metal detector at the door is so sensative that I had to take my coat off and a quarter out of my pocket because it went off when I walked through. This is post 9-11 people! The only ones in our courthouse with guns are security at the door and those guarding prisoners. Catherine is a civilian.

- Did like that everyone was working on this one case and that they changed their theories when the evidence started pointing in a different direction.

- Finally learning little snippets on why Riley has a chip on her shoulder.

- The best part - Drinks at the end and the promo for next week!

- I wonder if it was demanded by the defense that they go to court as soon as possible. If they did it almost backfired on them as the jury called him guilty before all the evidence was in. And quite frankly that's the only way I can figure out that a murder case with Langston on it could be that far in the system already. It usually takes years for cases to come to trial and he hasn't been a CSI that long.

Susan

[myfuturecsi]

Ray was on a lot tonight and actually had a couple more scenes than last week, but somehow it didn't seem as much of an overload

That's why I'm liking the new CSI.

Ray is in it, and he gets lots of screen time but it doesn't feel overloaded like it did with Grissom.

Sorry I liked Grissom, but he was a screen hog.

And I loved the ending with watching Nick and Riley drinking beers from the bottle, so cute while Greg sat on the opposite side with Catherine. I like that very much.

[Half]

- From someone who's been in more jury pools than I care to admit - How did Catherine get a gun in the courthouse let alone Humphreys(? think I have the right person)? The metal detector at the door is so sensative that I had to take my coat off and a quarter out of my pocket because it went off when I walked through. This is post 9-11 people! The only ones in our courthouse with guns are security at the door and those guarding prisoners. Catherine is a civilian.

From what I know (and it's not much since it comes from Law and Order ) if you have a badge you can bring a gun into a courtroom. It's almost like you're backup security, I guess.

I for some reason like Riley. I don't really know what I like about her, either, I just do. I definitely think that someone she knew committed suicide.

Ray: eh. I know that he's the new male lead. I know that he's a big actor. But I really just don't care about him at all, and that's my problem with him having so many scenes.

[Adzix]

didn't pay much attention to what?

to the episode.

[idahomom]

It was an interesting episode, but I agree that CSI has done better courtroom dramas in the past. Look how long it is taking the Casey Anthony case to go to court.

I would have prefered an older case with Greg testifying. They could have used it as a learning experience for Ray.

I'm glad Greg got more lines and action. Hodges had no lines. We are seeing a lot more of Henry this year. No Wendy? Drinks at the end were nice...

I'm confused about the ending and the involvement of the Congressman's Aide.

So the Mrs. Griffin killed Amber. What role did Humphreys play? I know he tried to poison Amber and inadvertantly poisoned her daughter too. Did Humphreys clear the scene and hide the gun on the orders of the Congressman? Did the Congress figure out it was his wife (once the gun was missing) and then call Humphreys? Thanks for any help. It could be I'm sleep deprived and missed something.