CSI New York--'Rush To Judgment'

[CSI Files]

Synopsis:

Detectives Flack and Angell bring in a young man named Todd Fleming for questioning, but Angell leaves Flack to handle the interrogation while she helps deal with an unruly suspect in the bullpen. No sooner is the suspect subdued than Flack is calling for help--Todd is on the floor, seizing. Flack administers CPR and tries to revive him, but the young man dies. Despite Mac's concern, Flack opts to talk to IAB officer John Malley, until it becomes clear that the lieutenant thinks he used excessive force. Flack calls for a union lawyer. The story flashes back two days, to the beginning of the case, when a snowboarder stumbled cross a severed foot in a pile of trash. An arm is found in a dumpster blocks away. Both limbs are found near bloody Christmas wrapping paper. Sid determines the victim died the previous night, and Lindsay brings in a severed hand to add to the collection of limbs. Sid is able to get a fingerprint match from the hand to a man named Vince Nelson, a wrestling coach at Hillridge High. Stella and Lindsay visit Vince's widow, Amalia, and she tells them her husband had no enemies. She last saw him the previous morning, but had gone to bed before he got home from his business class. She does recall one strange incident the day before: she noticed two people lurking on the roof. Stella and Lindsay go up to the roof and find a small pool of blood, which Stella takes back to the lab and identifies as alligator blood. Flack tells Mac that Vince wasn't registered in any business classes; he lied to his wife. He also withdrew $200 from an ATM the night he died.

Sid works on the newly-recovered torso and shows Danny and Lindsay a small gold disc he found on the body which Lindsay identifies as an acupressure magnet, used to help people quit smoking. Sid notes that Vince's lungs were in perfect condition. Sid also shows the CSIs he found sawdust on Vince's torso, and Danny posits that the killer may have used a chainsaw. A print off the acupressure magnet leads Flack to Tanda Love, a salsa instructor with a record for solicitation. She tells Flack that Vince was taking salsa lessons to surprise his wife on their anniversary, and Flack is able to corroborate her alibi. Hawkes brings Mac a disturbing find: pictures of under-aged boys in an e-mail Vince sent out to seven of the students on his wrestling team. Mac is disgusted by the pictures, while Hawkes wonders why the man would make such an incriminating move. While Flack goes off to question the seven students who got the e-mail, suspicion lands on one, Todd Fleming, when Stella learns his science project for the school fair involved alligator blood. Flack and Angell speak to the nervous young man, but when he evades their questions, Flack says they're going downtown to the station...which leads to the fateful interrogation. As Todd mutters that, "this wasn't supposed to happen," he gets more and more agitated until starting to seize up. After the boy's death, Sid determines hypoxia caused his heart to stop, but that there were no illegal drugs in his system. Mac is certain Flack didn't kill the boy. IAB puts Flack on modified assignment, and Angell is upset when she finds out during her own IAB questioning that the department is aware of her romantic relationship with Flack, which she warns him will discount her testimony.

An alibi rules Todd out as a suspect, but when Vince's head is recovered, Sid determines he was killed by a blow to the neck and also offers a new lead: a fleck of dried blood in the wound. The blood is matched to a rapist named Johnny Holt, who denies even knowing Vince. Lindsay is able to back him up when she finds the dried blood is three months old, meaning it must have come from the murder weapon. Mrs. Nelson continues to insist her husband was a normal man, and wasn't into child pornography. Hawkes and Mac discover Vince's firewall was breached and realize someone else must have sent the e-mail from Vince's account. Recalling Amalia's claims about two people on the roof, the two go to check it out and discover sawdust beneath the melting snow. Danny finally identifies the sawdust as coming from a beech willow tree, which is native to Flushing Queens, where one of the seven students lives: Kyle Sheridan. Kyle admits to, along with Todd, sending the e-mail after Vince changed his weight division and cost him a wrestling scholarship, but denies killing the coach. When he mentions his father, Alex, is a court officer, Mac realizes he's their killer. Alex used his baton three months ago to subdue Johnny Holt in court, and a visit to his house reveals sawdust, wrapping paper identical to that found with the body parts and blood on the basement wall. Mac and Angell arrest Alex who tells them he was disgusted after he saw the e-mails the coach sent his son. Alex beat him to death and, in an attempt to beat a murder charge, cut him up with a chainsaw and spread the body parts around the city. The case closed, Lindsay brings white roses to a grieving Amalia Nelson, while Mac offers Flack some good news: he's been cleared of the charges. Todd died from an overdose of an antidepressant.

Analysis:

Appearance vs. Reality is major theme in literature, and it's one several of the characters in this episode perhaps should have taken into account. Things are not always what they seem at first sight, no matter how damning they might first appear to be. Alex Sheridan discovers an e-mail containing child pornography from his son's coach, and, rather than turning it over to the authorities so that legal action can be taken, he decides to mete out his own justice. The evidence is pretty damning so his reaction of disgust is understandable, and really, it's probably the one time out of a thousand when an e-mail like that would not be at all what it seems. Indeed, even Mac makes the same "rush to judgment," so lost in his own horror and disgust at the images in the e-mail that he overlooks Hawkes' very good point: why would anyone send out such incriminating e-mails? Mac tends to be the judgmental type, so it's not really surprising to see him leaping to the most obvious conclusion and being guided by his revulsion.

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To read the full reviews, please click here.

[Faylinn]

Excellent review, dahling.

Appearance vs. Reality is major theme in literature, and it's one several of the characters in this episode perhaps should have taken into account. Things are not always what they seem at first sight, no matter how damning they might first appear to be.

Very true. And really - you would think, with the job these people have, they wouldn't automatically jump to conclusions.

Indeed, even Mac makes the same "rush to judgment," so lost in his own horror and disgust at the images in the e-mail that he overlooks Hawkes' very good point

I liked the difference between Mac and Hawkes' reactions in that scene, and I thought Hill and Gary did a great job. We only saw the first picture, but it was immediately obvious from their expressions what the other pictures showed. We were able to react because they did a good job of conveying the information.

Of course, there's a big difference between a lie of omission or an accidental shooting and the use of excessive force.

This is true - I agree with you that it seems odd for Mac to not show even a shadow of a doubt, but this seems like it's a matter of Flack's honor for Mac (if that makes sense). (To paraphrase what Mac said to Flack in "Consequences",) Flack isn't the type of guy to disrespect the shield they wear - end of story. Mac doesn't need to know more than that.

I also think it's interesting that Flack doesn't think the IAB guys will come down on him in the beginning - while Mac knows that's exactly what they'll do. Flack seems very confident that other cops are like him, even though he has been shown time and again that they aren't all like him - as cops and/or as men.

I can't help but wish the circumstances had been a little more murky and created room for doubt in the viewer's mind, or at least tried.

Yes, definitely - that would have been very interesting, and I have no doubt that Eddie could have pulled it off. Making us doubt Don Flack Jr might have been a bit of a feat, though.

Despite Stella's protests that Flack is so "by the book he doesn't even swear," I'm not so sure that's true.

Yeah, that was a bit of an odd statement to make. Why not just say he's one of the best cops you know or one of the most honorable cops you know or that he'd never use excessive force on a kid or something?

My first response to the statement was actually, 'Yeah right, he totally swears.' I'm not sure if we've seen him swear on screen (wasn't he the one who said, 'Stop, drop and roll, you son of a bitch'?), but even so - it's hard to imagine a cop from NYC not letting a few curse words slip every now and then.

IAB officers usually end up being two dimensional nemeses, and that trend isn't broken here.

It's a shame there isn't more depth - it would have only taken a line or two to make it personal.

I'm often disappointed by things that get neglected on this show when so little effort is needed to put them in.

Though the suspense really isn't there in the story, Eddie Cahill sells it with his performance

Yes, Eddie was great - he's always great. He's an extremely talented actor, and episodes like this prove why we love him - and why it's a shame that he is in the background so much. This show has some of the most talented actors in the CSI franchise (much less other series out there), and so often it feels like that talent is wasted. Not that I don't love all of Flack's snarky little lines, but he should really get meatier stuff to deal with more often.

at least he wasn't robbed of the final scene as Hawkes was last week in "Help"

Ugh, yes - I'm glad they didn't make that mistake two weeks in a row.

Flack is dismissive, reminding her he has bigger things on his plate at the moment, and rather than getting huffy or offended, Angell backs down. There are indeed, bigger issues at stake than who gave away the fact that they're dating. After watching Danny and Lindsay do their immature dance for years on end and seeing Lindsay harp on Danny while he was grieving for the death of a child, it's a refreshing change of pace to see a young couple who actually feel like partners in the truest sense of the word. Cahill and Emmanuelle Vaugier certainly have chemistry together, and it's nice to see their relationship unfolding in a natural, realistic way.

They definitely seem to be a much more mature couple, and it's promising that they seem to be determined to keep their relationship professional while at work. I'm not sure I could handle more Danny-and-Lindsay-esque immature relationship antics.

While I'm hesitant about the show having another relationship between major characters who work together, the chemistry between the two - and the way it is being handled (aside from that random kiss in "Dead Inside") - does put my mind at ease a bit.

Speaking of Danny, I'm starting to think whoever snatched his glasses took away his personality, too. He's had little to do recently aside from exchanging lovesick looks and words with Lindsay.

Seriously. And oh man, I cringed at that Mr Potato Head joke. It was lame. I know he isn't as funny as Flack, but that just sucked.

Plus, he can't even chase a suspect properly anymore - he frickin' fell over. At least when Flack falls, it's after a bit more action (and not over a garbage bag or whatever it was - although didn't Danny fall over a garbage can while chasing Reed in "Consequences"?). Danny, put on your glasses so you can see where you're going.

The real crime here is that Danny offers up absolutely no support of Flack, who has gone to bat for him on more than one occasion.

Considering that we've gotten so many good scenes between those two this season, it's disappointing that they didn't include a scene when things are serious for Flack. Even a phone call would be better than nothing. Instead, yet again, Danny isn't around when Flack's the one that needs help. To be honest, it makes Danny look bad - I'm sure that's probably not what the writers are going for, but having Mac and Stella show Flack support doesn't mean Danny can't show him some support as well. Be a good friend, Danny.

In the end, it is Mac who, after Flack has been cleared, offers the detective an opportunity to blow off some steam

I enjoyed that scene. They've created an interesting relationship between those two over the past few seasons, and it's nice to see them in a bit of a casual situation. I'd like to see them butt heads again, but this works too. After revealing that Flack and Angell are seeing each other, I would have expected her to be the one to meet him after work, but i think this works better - it's also another hint that things between Flack and Angell won't overshadow his interactions with the other characters, which helps to put my mind at ease. (Danny and Lindsay, I'm looking at you.)

As the widow of the unfortunate Vince Nelson, Mayte Garcia turns in a terrific performance.

She did a very good job of creating a sympathetic character with just a few scenes. (Even though I did laugh when she said 'dog feces'. )

[jolein]

Ugh,stupid laptop.
Anyways,finally I had time to read your review

Great read,as usual

I do politly disagree with some points though.

I didn`t think Danny was bad,but was more the light note in the episode and I fully enjoyed the jokes.
He wasn`t there to support Flack but I blame that more on the writers cause I felt that they were more busy with giving Angell some scenes.

I wasn`t really an Angell fan but I didn`t like her in this episode.
All the scenes were too much screaming tough girl and she was a plain bitch in her scene with Flack when she so called confronted him about their relationship.
And ì`m afraid that relationship is gonna be the centre spil of more drama with either a break up(if Danny/Lindsay can`t work in the same department then I doubt Angell/Flack can) or she is gonna be killed.

Mac suprised me in a good way,though there were still some cringe moments.

I do agree that they tried to make Flack to much of a good 2 shoes or however you wanna call it.

While I normally don`t blame writers much,I felt in this case that with some scenes the hit the nail wrong.


This is purely my observation,no offense meant offcourse

[ErinElizabeth]

or she is gonna be killed.

Don't get my hopes up like that!!

Seriously though the tough girl attitude and the slow motion was a bit overdone. I mean I'm all for a strong woman but that one guy was tossing people around and she walks right up and is all "Hey that's my desk". And in a room full of detectives and unis she's the only one to pull her gun and ends the crisis.

Not to mention, all of a sudden she and Flack are secret lovers now??
And let me tell ya she's quite the supportive girlfriend. Flack is having the worst day of his life and all she cares about is herself and accuses him of outing their relationship. ...As she strikes up this conversation in the middle of the precinct.

The main thing that bugs me though is that her character was never really established. People weren't even sure what her first name was for like 2 seasons! She popped in now and then and now she's just a love interest for Flack. And really, I know I'm kinda the minority here, but I don't see the chemistry at all. Angell falls completely flat for me in every scene she's in.

I dunno, I just wish we had more development before they were suddenly in a secret relationship. I know this is a procedural but still. I'd rather them not do relationships at all if they're not even going to build and develop them well. I'm so sick of all this assuming and resorting to "it happened off screen" the way we had to do with DL 90% of the time.

If you're gonna do the relationship thing then DO IT. On screen. With some real basis.

Lastly, I was disappointed that Flack still didn't get that much screen time. I was hoping this would be his "On The Job" or "Raising Shane". I wanted the ep and the case to be all about him. It would have been better if the case was trying to figure out how the boy died and whatnot.

Bah. Maybe my hopes were just too high for this ep. I mean there were parts I definitely enjoyed but I wanted an entirely Flack centric episode. He is a fan favorite after all!! And for God's sake give us a friggin Danny/Flack scene where Danny is finally the one supporting Flack and not the other way around.

Also, just as an aside, I also miss Danny being the take down guy but the reason is because Carmine herniated a disc or something so he can't really tackle people anymore. He said so in the video game extra thing where they interviewed him. So don't get mad at the writers!

Here's the interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgTv8Wo2Dho

[melanie33]

The episode reveals that Flack and Angell are in fact a bona fide couple. Angell is taken aback when, during her own questioning by IAB, she's asked about their relationship. Like anyone who discovers personal info is public knowledge, she turns to the person whom she shares the secret with and asks him if he knows how people found out. Flack is dismissive, reminding her he has bigger things on his plate at the moment, and rather than getting huffy or offended, Angell backs down. There are indeed bigger issues at stake than who gave away the fact that they're dating. After watching Danny and Lindsay do their immature dance for years on end and seeing Lindsay harp on Danny while he was grieving for the death of a child, it's a refreshing change of pace to see a young couple who actually feel like partners in the truest sense of the word. Cahill and [COLOR=yellow]Emmanuelle Vaugier[/COLOR] certainly have chemistry together, and it's nice to see their relationship unfolding in a natural, realistic way.

Ahh. Ok. So Lindsay harped at Danny did she? I thought she wasnt there for him, isnt that what was stated in your reviews last season? Which one is it?

And in regards to FA. IMO I dont think Angell should have brought it up in the first place. I agree with the poster above me. I dont think then was the right time. Flack had more to worry about, than how people found out about them. IMO she came off looking just as selfish as you say Lindsay is.

And FA feels Natural. We have had 2 episodes where they flirted. One ep with a kiss that looked very uncomfortable to me, and now we are supposed to buy they are in a relationship. Oh yeah, totally natural feel to it.

And about a policy that prevents people that work together from dating/getting married. Joelin, I dont think thats going to come into play in regards to either FA or DL. If it was a real problem, more would have been said about it in regards to FA last night..

[Top41]

Originally Posted by Faylinn

I liked the difference between Mac and Hawkes' reactions in that scene, and I thought Hill and Gary did a great job. We only saw the first picture, but it was immediately obvious from their expressions what the other pictures showed. We were able to react because they did a good job of conveying the information.

It was nice to see Mac show his human side and jump to a conclusion based on an emotional reaction. I liked that. I like that Mac isn't always right. I do think it makes him more interesting as a character.

I also think it's interesting that Flack doesn't think the IAB guys will come down on him in the beginning - while Mac knows that's exactly what they'll do. Flack seems very confident that other cops are like him, even though he has been shown time and again that they aren't all like him - as cops and/or as men.

I think Flack is an honest guy--and as such, he expects the same from others. Well, maybe not others, but others he works with. He has a kind of blind faith in Danny, and he seems to really trust those he works with as well. I do think Flack equates the badge with honor, which is why it's hard for him when people like Gavin Moran and Dean Truby betray that.

Considering that we've gotten so many good scenes between those two this season, it's disappointing that they didn't include a scene when things are serious for Flack. Even a phone call would be better than nothing. Instead, yet again, Danny isn't around when Flack's the one that needs help. To be honest, it makes Danny look bad - I'm sure that's probably not what the writers are going for, but having Mac and Stella show Flack support doesn't mean Danny can't show him some support as well. Be a good friend, Danny.

Character-wise, that's just a bad oversight, and makes their friendship look pretty one-sided when push comes to shove. We know Flack will always be there for Danny, but the reverse doesn't seem to hold true.

Originally Posted by jolein

Ugh,stupid laptop.
Anyways,finally I had time to read your review

Great read,as usual

I do politly disagree with some points though.

I didn`t think Danny was bad,but was more the light note in the episode and I fully enjoyed the jokes.

I always appreciate hearing an opposing viewpoint! I think sometimes Danny's jokes are supposed to be bad/dumb...Flack really is the funny one on the show and when Danny tries to make jokes, they often fall flat. And the jokes about the dead guy felt like bad taste this time around.

He wasn`t there to support Flack but I blame that more on the writers cause I felt that they were more busy with giving Angell some scenes.

Yeah, that one is definitely on the writers, but it does reflect on Danny's character. I would have thought they could have had Danny come up to Flack in the squad room instead of Stella, or show Danny trying to cheer Flack up at the end before Mac came in. He could have been worked in there.

And ì`m afraid that relationship is gonna be the centre spil of more drama with either a break up(if Danny/Lindsay can`t work in the same department then I doubt Angell/Flack can) or she is gonna be killed.

I think it depends on how far they take the relationship between Flack and Angell. At this point, it could go either way.

Originally Posted by ErinElizabeth

Seriously though the tough girl attitude and the slow motion was a bit overdone. I mean I'm all for a strong woman but that one guy was tossing people around and she walks right up and is all "Hey that's my desk". And in a room full of detectives and unis she's the only one to pull her gun and ends the crisis.

Yeah, there was definitely some highlighting of Angell's toughness here. I don't know that it's that much worse than having Lindsay tackle suspects like she did in season two (which I also enjoyed). Or having Stella fight men who are a good deal bigger than her. I don't think this profession attracts shrinking violets, so it makes sense that these women are tough. I'd rather see them kicking ass than being victimized.

Not to mention, all of a sudden she and Flack are secret lovers now??
And let me tell ya she's quite the supportive girlfriend. Flack is having the worst day of his life and all she cares about is herself and accuses him of outing their relationship. ...As she strikes up this conversation in the middle of the precinct.

A bad time to bring that up, certainly, though she'd just been blindsided with the news which is probably why she brought it up then. The minute he reminded her it wasn't the time, she let it go, and didn't seem to hold it against him. It was a very real moment to me, and I liked it.

The main thing that bugs me though is that her character was never really established. People weren't even sure what her first name was for like 2 seasons! She popped in now and then and now she's just a love interest for Flack.

We've actually seen her since her rookie days with Mac in season three, and she didn't hook up with Flack until this season (5). She certainly had a lot more time to develop than Lindsay, who was pretty cleared paired with Danny from her first episode and, despite being in the main credits, has never developed beyond a love interest role.

I dunno, I just wish we had more development before they were suddenly in a secret relationship.

Angell is a recurring character and not a regular, so there are many more places this relationship can be taken. They can break up and we as an audience will know we won't necessarily have to be subjected to the ugly interactions at work. As jolein mentioned above, Angell could get killed in the line of duty, launching an emotional storyline for Flack. The possibilities are interesting and numerous.

Lastly, I was disappointed that Flack still didn't get that much screen time. I was hoping this would be his "On The Job" or "Raising Shane". I wanted the ep and the case to be all about him. It would have been better if the case was trying to figure out how the boy died and whatnot.

Agreed, I would have liked to see much more of the focus on Flack.

Bah. Maybe my hopes were just too high for this ep. I mean there were parts I definitely enjoyed but I wanted an entirely Flack centric episode. He is a fan favorite after all!! And for God's sake give us a friggin Danny/Flack scene where Danny is finally the one supporting Flack and not the other way around.

Yeah, that was highly disappointing!

Originally Posted by melanie33

Ahh. Ok. So Lindsay harped at Danny did she? I thought she wasnt there for him, isnt that what was stated in your reviews last season? Which one is it?

First, Lindsay was not there for Danny (411-415). Then, out of the blue in 416, she decides she's mad at him for not coming to her with his grief and harps on him for that. So it's both--as I mention in my reviews.

And in regards to FA. IMO I dont think Angell should have brought it up in the first place. I agree with the poster above me. I dont think then was the right time. Flack had more to worry about, than how people found out about them. IMO she came off looking just as selfish as you say Lindsay is.

But unlike Lindsay, she recognized her mistake and dropped the issue. She didn't go around the rest of the episode acting huffy at Flack or making him apologize for hurting her precious feelings while he was dealing with something else. Angell handled it like an adult, Lindsay like a spoiled child. Just like when she screamed at Stella in "Silent Night" to "leave me alone!" or when she tried to pass the buck off on Danny after she left evidence out in "Like Water for Murder."

And FA feels Natural. We have had 2 episodes where they flirted. One ep with a kiss that looked very uncomfortable to me, and now we are supposed to buy they are in a relationship. Oh yeah, totally natural feel to it.

To each their own--if you feel that way, you're definitely entitled to your opinion. But chemistry doesn't take oodles of screentime--no matter how many forced scenes we had to sit through in season two and three between Danny and Lindsay, the two failed to generate any heat. All Flack had to do was try his game out on Angell--and get busted for it--for the pair to sizzle.

And about a policy that prevents people that work together from dating/getting married. Joelin, I dont think thats going to come into play in regards to either FA or DL. If it was a real problem, more would have been said about it in regards to FA last night..

Agreed. It's not--nor should it be--a problem for either couple.

[Little_Peaches]

Lovesick? Come on, smiling or even looking at the woman having his baby should be completely banned? Honestly, if he didn't glance at her once in a while we would just have the accusations that the writers aren't consistent and that he does not have feelings for her, only with her for the baby etc.

The Danny Flack thing hasn't been in effect for awhile come to think about it - recently it's been the lovely Adam having Flack's back and I'm really loving the whole Danny/Hawkes dynamic we have. Very natural.

I digress, just a random thought - perhaps Danny has been advised to stay well away. Or maybe, he called him? Or perhaps Danny was too busy to get all buddy buddy.
I think they skimmed through the whole, situation far too quickly. They set it up to be all about Flack however it just turned around like he was an after thought, give the guy a chance to shine, not glow for the split seconds you decide to give him airtime! No showing us the soul searching when considering his resignation? There were some great opportunities there for Eddie but they never exploited them.

Lindsay saying Boom? Everyone get over it, who cares? She works and socialises with the man, hell I say 'No worries' on a regular basis thanks to chilling with an Aussie or two. What I do have to ask as before is where this harping on occurs? We had that scene in the hallway feeling the bump like ages ago and then they talk about cases together or random fact sharing but I'm yet to see the whole Lindsay harassing Danny for his time.

I also think the comment about Mac not being inclined to give anyone the benefit of the doubt is misguided. As he forever states, it's all about the evidence, he will not accuse Flack of murder when it hasn't been shown to actually be murder. He wouldn't have a job it that were his attitude. As for the subway shooting - someone was shot and killed, very much a reason to assume (quickly) it was murder/manslaughter.

I'm all for FA to be honest, but I didn't think that in the middle of work was the time or place. It was a bit whiney and really not top priority. It seems like time for more drama. Le sigh.

Overall, wasn't very impressed with the episode, a bit like Love Actually, great premises, but too much happening for it to be as good as it ought to have been.

[grneyes]

I have to say, I don't think Angell should have brought up their relationship while she was at the precinct. I can understand how she would have been blindsided by the information while she was being questioned, but that was not the most appropriate time or place. Flack was right in brushing her off, but I do think she was offended by his statements. It seemed, to me, that Angell was making that specific moment all about her, instead of caring for someone she's apparently in a relationship with.

I feel like Danny and Flack's relationship has always been a bit onesided, in regards to being there for each other. I think we all have certain people we turn to for certain things, and Danny has not shown he's capable of being level-headed for Flack. If anything, Danny may have made the moment worse, trying to defend Flack. We saw it in "Raising Shane" when Hawkes was arrested. Danny ended up yelling at Gerard at the crime scene. That's hardly the professionalism Flack needed at that moment.

[Top41]

Originally Posted by Little_Peaches

Lovesick? Come on, smiling or even looking at the woman having his baby should be completely banned? Honestly, if he didn't glance at her once in a while we would just have the accusations that the writers aren't consistent and that he does not have feelings for her, only with her for the baby etc.

It's sad that Danny's character has been reduced to that when he used to be so interesting.

The Danny Flack thing hasn't been in effect for awhile come to think about it

Think harder. They've had quite a few scenes together this season that have highlighted the rapport between the two. Though, yes, since the pregnancy reared its head, their screentime together has been limited.

- recently it's been the lovely Adam having Flack's back

Once. Hardly compares to the number of times Flack has had Danny's back (sorry, Fay! ).

and I'm really loving the whole Danny/Hawkes dynamic we have. Very natural.

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can only have one and not the other.

I digress, just a random thought - perhaps Danny has been advised to stay well away. Or maybe, he called him? Or perhaps Danny was too busy to get all buddy buddy.

Maybe, but we didn't really see that on screen, so who knows? It simply makes him look like a bad friend.

I think they skimmed through the whole, situation far too quickly. They set it up to be all about Flack however it just turned around like he was an after thought, give the guy a chance to shine, not glow for the split seconds you decide to give him airtime! No showing us the soul searching when considering his resignation? There were some great opportunities there for Eddie but they never exploited them.

Agreed, and that is definitely the biggest travesty of the episode. This would have been a much more powerful episode had it been about Flack in the way "On the Job" was about Danny.

Lindsay saying Boom? Everyone get over it, who cares? She works and socialises with the man, hell I say 'No worries' on a regular basis thanks to chilling with an Aussie or two.

Did someone bring that up here? But it's a replay of Flack picking it up from Danny, and therefore not very original.

What I do have to ask as before is where this harping on occurs? We had that scene in the hallway feeling the bump like ages ago and then they talk about cases together or random fact sharing but I'm yet to see the whole Lindsay harassing Danny for his time.

The harping is from back in the fourth season--see my response above your post.

I also think the comment about Mac not being inclined to give anyone the benefit of the doubt is misguided. As he forever states, it's all about the evidence, he will not accuse Flack of murder when it hasn't been shown to actually be murder. He wouldn't have a job it that were his attitude. As for the subway shooting - someone was shot and killed, very much a reason to assume (quickly) it was murder/manslaughter.

And in the interrogation room, someone who came in apparently healthy ended up dead with a bruise on his head. Not saying the situations are the same, but it feels inconsistent in its extreme. Mac didn't tell Flack that they'd wait to see what the evidence would conclude--he simply said, "I know Flack didn't do this." Luckily, unlike his other "rush to judgment," he's right on this call. It's great to see him putting his faith in Flack, but given his devotion to evidence, it feels a little off for him.

Originally Posted by grneyes

I have to say, I don't think Angell should have brought up their relationship while she was at the precinct. I can understand how she would have been blindsided by the information while she was being questioned, but that was not the most appropriate time or place. Flack was right in brushing her off, but I do think she was offended by his statements. It seemed, to me, that Angell was making that specific moment all about her, instead of caring for someone she's apparently in a relationship with.

What made you feel she was offended by his statements? I felt she understood, but we didn't really get another scene between the two after that.

I feel like Danny and Flack's relationship has always been a bit onesided, in regards to being there for each other. I think we all have certain people we turn to for certain things, and Danny has not shown he's capable of being level-headed for Flack. If anything, Danny may have made the moment worse, trying to defend Flack. We saw it in "Raising Shane" when Hawkes was arrested. Danny ended up yelling at Gerard at the crime scene. That's hardly the professionalism Flack needed at that moment.

True, but it would have been nice to see Danny at least try. You're right though--ultimately from what we've seen, the relationship between Danny and Flack has been pretty one-sided. In five seasons, the fact that we've never once seen Danny reciprocate in any way by being there for Flack or offering him comfort when he might have needed it, can't really be ignored.

[melanie33]

Kristine. Thats just your PO whether Angell is more mature than Lindsay. Because IMO Angell acted no differently to how you say L did in RND. Angell confronted Flack at work about their relationship when Flack had more on his plate to worry about. It doesnt matter if she just found out others knew about their relationship. I think she could have picked a better time to confront him about it.

IMO in RND it was Danny that pushed Lindsay in that scene, she tried to drop it on two occassions. But he kept pushing, to a point where she had to say something. Also in regards to L not seeming concerned about D. In AITF it was L that got F to check up on him, L that lied to Mac to cover for him. She couldnt have gone after him, then Mac would have been two CSI's short, and would have gotten suspicious. She was trying to help him from afar.

In regards to D/L. You dont like it, I get that. But what they did with D/L is no different to how they string things out on any other show in regards to relationships. If you think that FA are not going to have drama and be pulled apart put back together then IMO I think your going to be dissapointed.

[Top41]

Originally Posted by melanie33

Kristine. Thats just your PO whether Angell is more mature than Lindsay.

PO? Do you mean POV--as in, point of view? In which case, yes, of course--that's the whole point of my reviews...to give my point of view.

Because IMO Angell acted no differently to how you say L did in RND. Angell confronted Flack at work about their relationship when Flack had more on his plate to worry about. It doesnt matter if she just found out others knew about their relationship. I think she could have picked a better time to confront him about it.

I didn't get the sense she was confronting initially so much as telling him about it and trying to discuss it with him, but then when she pointed out that she didn't tell anyone, he told her he had other things on his mind. Rather than coming out with a laundry list of accusations, she dropped it.

IMO in RND it was Danny that pushed Lindsay in that scene, she tried to drop it on two occassions. But he kept pushing, to a point where she had to say something.

Yep, he did, because rather than coming to Danny like an adult and saying, "I'd like to be here for you but I'm not sure how and I feel like you're shutting me out," Lindsay shoved folders into his hands in front of co-workers after being told to brief him on a case and acted snippy during work. Do you really feel that is the mature behavior of a thirty-something adult? Really?

Also in regards to L not seeming concerned about D. In AITF it was L that got F to check up on him, L that lied to Mac to cover for him. She couldnt have gone after him, then Mac would have been two CSI's short, and would have gotten suspicious. She was trying to help him from afar.

Yes, she did, and I don't fault her there at all. But she accused him of shutting her out when she didn't even try to reach out to him. To turn that around on him--to essentially try to manipulate the feelings of a man who is grieving--seems pretty low to me.

In regards to D/L. You dont like it, I get that. But what they did with D/L is no different to how they string things out on any other show in regards to relationships.

Of course relationships on television get strung out, but Danny and Lindsay have behaved more like teenagers than adults through most of their relationship up until now. I'm actually impressed with how they're handling the baby--I think they're both making an effort to be responsible and actually communicate with each other.

If you think that FA are not going to have drama and be pulled apart put back together then IMO I think your going to be dissapointed.

If you read my posts above, you'll see that I do indeed expect there to be drama between them.

[Robin]

It was a snow boarder who landed in the garbage next to the foot.

[ErinElizabeth]

Originally Posted by Top41

PO? Do you mean POV--as in, point of view? In which case, yes, of course--that's the whole point of my reviews...to give my point of view.

No, she meant PO. Personal Opinion.

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by Top41

What made you feel she was offended by his statements? I felt she understood, but we didn't really get another scene between the two after that.

It's in her reaction towards him when he tells her he has other things on his mind at the moment. She looks to the left (not at him), closes her eyes, says "right" and gets up and walks away. Also, the way she says right. It comes out rather short and in one breath. Perhaps, if they'd had another scene between D and A, I would have a different opinion on it; however, I feel like what was portrayed during that scene was supposed to show tension between the two characters.

[Top41]

Originally Posted by Robin

It was a snow boarder who landed in the garbage next to the foot.

Ah, cool--thank you! Will correct that.

Originally Posted by ErinElizabeth

No, she meant PO. Personal Opinion.

Ah, thank you ; don't usually see that one abbreviated. Either way, I do think it's a given a review is the reviewer's personal opinion.

Originally Posted by grneyes

It's in her reaction towards him when he tells her he has other things on his mind at the moment. She looks to the left (not at him), closes her eyes, says "right" and gets up and walks away. Also, the way she says right. It comes out rather short and in one breath. Perhaps, if they'd had another scene between D and A, I would have a different opinion on it; however, I feel like what was portrayed during that scene was supposed to show tension between the two characters.

I'll have to look at it again; I saw it more as her dropping it because she realized based on his comment that it wasn't the right time to talk about it. It was the last scene between them in the episode, which means we never really get to see how it was left. I expect they'll be fine the next time we see them, too, but if there was tension there it would be nice if it was followed up on. Flack and Angell are both pretty easy-going people; I imagine even if they were at odds, it's something that they would both shake off after a couple of hours. If she's pissy with him over this the next time we see them together, I'll happily admit I was wrong, though!

[Faylinn]

Originally Posted by ErinElizabeth

Also, just as an aside, I also miss Danny being the take down guy but the reason is because Carmine herniated a disc or something so he can't really tackle people anymore. He said so in the video game extra thing where they interviewed him. So don't get mad at the writers!

The writers made him trip over a frickin' bag - I totally blame them for taking that route. If he can't chase and tackle, they could find a better way to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Top41

We've actually seen her since her rookie days with Mac in season three, and she didn't hook up with Flack until this season (5). She certainly had a lot more time to develop than Lindsay, who was pretty cleared paired with Danny from her first episode and, despite being in the main credits, has never developed beyond a love interest role.

I'm going to be a dork for a few minutes. Forgive me.

She was in eight episodes before she even had a scene with Flack (seven during season 3 and one during season 4). She worked with (and flirted with) Flack in "Commuted Sentences", and in the next two episodes she appeared in, she didn't work with him or interact with him. They had two scenes (if I recall) in "All in the Family", nothing in the next episode she appeared in, and they had scenes in the next two she was in (admittedly about five episodes apart). When she first appeared in season 5, I don't think she had a scene with him (in "Enough"), although the next episode had The Kiss. (I don't think she was in "The Box" despite being credited for it.) Then she was in "Forbidden Fruit" without a flirtatious scene (or any scene) with Flack, I believe, and they've done the past two episodes together.

So that's:
7 episodes in season 3: 0 with Flack, 7 without Flack
8 episodes in season 4: 4 with Flack, 4 without Flack
5 episodes in season 5: 3 with Flack, 2 without Flack (and this season isn't over)

Out of a combined total of 20 episodes over three seasons, she's had 7 which included working with and/or flirting with Flack. That's less than half overall. Even just looking at seasons 4 and 5, it's almost an even split so far. As a recurring character and a love interest, I think that's pretty good.

The problem IMO is if they get to the point that she never works cases without interacting with him or they are unable to work professionally despite their relationship. (Aside from the scene in this episode, it hasn't been a problem so far.)

[/dork moment over] (I'm not weird or anything, BTW, I just looked through the episode reviews to remind myself while using Emmanuelle's IMDb page to know which episodes she was in. )

Originally Posted by Top41

Once. Hardly compares to the number of times Flack has had Danny's back (sorry, Fay! ).

It's okay, I forgive you. I would like to see Flack and Adam interact more, though.

Originally Posted by Top41

Ah, cool--thank you! Will correct that.

I missed that. I am a failure. *woe*



As for the Flack/Angell scene - I haven't rewatched the episode, so this is going from my memory of the scene (which may not be entirely accurate, but there you go).

When the IAB officer brought up her relationship with Flack, it's natural for her to wonder when it became public knowledge. Hell, I'd want to know how it became public knowledge if it was me. (And if I didn't tell anybody, the first thought I'd have about who did tell would obviously be the other person supposedly keeping the secret.) Based on Angell's reaction (and the fact that we know she's only been a detective for a few years), I'd say it's safe to assume dating a colleague you work with closely isn't normal for her. She was uncomfortable with everybody knowing about the relationship (and apparently thought keeping it 'secret' would prevent anybody from finding out - haha, yeah right), and she seemed uncomfortable about being the subject of office gossip. (This is conjecture, of course, but it makes sense to me. )

When she asks Flack about it, she isn't just thinking about herself - she does point out that the relationship not being secret means that her testimony about Flack's conduct isn't worth crap to IAB.

Was it the right time to bring it up? No, it wasn't. I'm sure if she'd thought about it, she would have known that - but that wouldn't stop her from wanting to ask about it. And when she brought it up and Flack flat-out told her he had other things to deal with, she let it go. I didn't take her response as offended so much as a bit hurt - even though he's right, that doesn't mean it didn't sound a bit harsh to hear it come out the way he said it. But she knew he was right and she left it alone and got back to work.

Time will tell if she's nursing some butthurt and plans to stomp around before blowing her top on an unsuspecting Flack, but there's nothing at this point to indicate that she'll behave that way - and I hope she doesn't. If she does, I may very well grow to hate their relationship, but as it stands right now, despite my misgivings about another pair of coworkers being together, I like it - and I'm choosing to be optimistic and not assume it'll all be wretched before it even happens. I have confidence in Eddie and Emmanuelle to act their butts off in any case.

[jolein]

I always appreciate hearing an opposing viewpoint! I think sometimes Danny's jokes are supposed to be bad/dumb...Flack really is the funny one on the show and when Danny tries to make jokes, they often fall flat. And the jokes about the dead guy felt like bad taste this time around.

It is!
Aha,in that way,yeah I can understand then that it felt like a bad taste but I was actually thinking about the whole scene with Sid reacting to it and starts talking about his obsession and then Danny`s reaction.
I thought that was funny and really somehow fitted that scene.

On a very shallow sidenote,I hate it that I don`t have trees to trim cause Danny could come and do that for me anything

And about a policy that prevents people that work together from dating/getting married. Joelin, I dont think thats going to come into play in regards to either FA or DL. If it was a real problem, more would have been said about it in regards to FA last night..

I know that,but I was just pointing that out because it has been the cause of many good and bad discussion.
Offcourse,it`s not gonna come into play because it`s fictional.

When she asks Flack about it, she isn't just thinking about herself - she does point out that the relationship not being secret means that her testimony about Flack's conduct isn't worth crap to IAB.

But that would have made more sense if it was worded differently.
To me it sounded as if she first more or less accused Flack of talking about their relationship before she added the whole testimony point.
I do understand that she might be not pleased because she wanted to keep it still that they were in a relationship but it just sounded bad.
And another thing which bugged me was that in the rest of the episode she was nowwhere to be seen,when it came to Don.
That felt weird and off,they already know that they have a relationship and that her testimony won`t hold,then she could have made time for him to comfort him.

Yeah, there was definitely some highlighting of Angell's toughness here. I don't know that it's that much worse than having Lindsay tackle suspects like she did in season two (which I also enjoyed). Or having Stella fight men who are a good deal bigger than her. I don't think this profession attracts shrinking violets, so it makes sense that these women are tough. I'd rather see them kicking ass than being victimized.

I don`t mind the toughness normally so much but in this case it seemed to much and to be honest when it was revealed that Flack and Angell are dating,I wasn`t suprised to see Angell getting shoved in the foreground so much.

I do admit that i`m not an Angell fan,i`m just neutral about her but in this episode there were just some scenes which rubbed me the wrong way.

[Ceindreadh]

That felt weird and off,they already know that they have a relationship and that her testimony won`t hold,then she could have made time for him to comfort him.

What surprized me was that she was still on the case. Flack clearly couldn't work the case because he was being investigated for the death, but since Angel was also involved in bringing the kid in, surely she should have been taken off the case as well?

The problem IMO is if they get to the point that she never works cases without interacting with him or they are unable to work professionally despite their relationship. (Aside from the scene in this episode, it hasn't been a problem so far.)

But it is a problem. Angell's testimony isn't worth squat to help Flack in this episode because they're in a relationship. The assumption that any courtroom/defence attourney is going to make is that any evidence they give could have been cooked up between them. (yes, we all know that the two would be professional, but reasonable doubt has come from less). In the same way that I feel Danny and Lindsey should never be corroborating each others evidence, Flack and Angell should never be working the same case together. (there shouldn't be a problem with them working the same shifts in the same precinct, but that's it)

And really, I know I'm kinda the minority here, but I don't see the chemistry at all. Angell falls completely flat for me in every scene she's in.

Not a total minority. I find her to be just a bit too smug for my liking.

I totally rewound and replayed the Stella/Flack scene, Flack/Angell has my finger squarely on the fast forward button. But yay for the Flack/Mac scene at the end!

[Little_Peaches]

But it's a replay of Flack picking it up from Danny, and therefore not very original

Lindsay said it first in 4.01, Flack didn't say it until 4.18.

Danny tripping was a bit dire, I have no issue with the Angell take down but the focus then came on to him falling, not her being super awesome. Which is a shame cause I do like her.

[Top41]

Originally Posted by Faylinn

When the IAB officer brought up her relationship with Flack, it's natural for her to wonder when it became public knowledge. Hell, I'd want to know how it became public knowledge if it was me. (And if I didn't tell anybody, the first thought I'd have about who did tell would obviously be the other person supposedly keeping the secret.) Based on Angell's reaction (and the fact that we know she's only been a detective for a few years), I'd say it's safe to assume dating a colleague you work with closely isn't normal for her. She was uncomfortable with everybody knowing about the relationship (and apparently thought keeping it 'secret' would prevent anybody from finding out - haha, yeah right), and she seemed uncomfortable about being the subject of office gossip. (This is conjecture, of course, but it makes sense to me. )

When she asks Flack about it, she isn't just thinking about herself - she does point out that the relationship not being secret means that her testimony about Flack's conduct isn't worth crap to IAB.

Exactly--I got the sense she wanted to give him the heads up about that as well. I'm sure she thought her testimony could help and was probably thrown by realizing that just because they were dating, it was going to be completely discounted.

Was it the right time to bring it up? No, it wasn't. I'm sure if she'd thought about it, she would have known that - but that wouldn't stop her from wanting to ask about it. And when she brought it up and Flack flat-out told her he had other things to deal with, she let it go. I didn't take her response as offended so much as a bit hurt - even though he's right, that doesn't mean it didn't sound a bit harsh to hear it come out the way he said it. But she knew he was right and she left it alone and got back to work.

Exactly. She didn't make a huffy declaration and storm off. The whole conversation felt like one between two adults, which is what I liked about it.

Time will tell if she's nursing some butthurt and plans to stomp around before blowing her top on an unsuspecting Flack, but there's nothing at this point to indicate that she'll behave that way - and I hope she doesn't. If she does, I may very well grow to hate their relationship, but as it stands right now, despite my misgivings about another pair of coworkers being together, I like it - and I'm choosing to be optimistic and not assume it'll all be wretched before it even happens. I have confidence in Eddie and Emmanuelle to act their butts off in any case.

I'm fairly confident Angell won't be blowing Flack off and acting unprofessional at work in his company for the next several episodes. If I'm wrong, then I'll be critical of the behavior because that's not the way for a professional woman or man--especially one who wants to be taken seriously--acts.

Originally Posted by jolein

But that would have made more sense if it was worded differently.
To me it sounded as if she first more or less accused Flack of talking about their relationship before she added the whole testimony point.

I did get the sense that she was trying to figure out if he said anything to anyone who might have repeated it, but not in an angry/accusatory way. She's a detective--she was focused on getting to the bottom of it. Flack reminded her that he had bigger concerns, and she respectfully dropped the topic.

Originally Posted by Ceindreadh

What surprized me was that she was still on the case. Flack clearly couldn't work the case because he was being investigated for the death, but since Angel was also involved in bringing the kid in, surely she should have been taken off the case as well?

She wasn't in the room with Flack when the kid died, which is when IAB thinks some sort of wrong-doing went on. Because she wasn't in the room at the time he died, there was no reason to remove her from the case.

Originally Posted by Little_Peaches

Lindsay said it first in 4.01, Flack didn't say it until 4.18.

Then it's really stale. The nice bit about 418 was that it was played as a parallel--Flack made a crack about Mac and Stella saying the same thing and then Mac turned it around on Flack when he used Danny's catchphrase. In the Lindsay instances, it's just thrown out there to further establish a connection between her and Danny. There's no cleverness to it. I'm glad "Montana" is gone, but we could do with a little less "boom," too.

As for the issue of Danny tripping, hasn't he always been something of a klutz? He tripped over a stereo in "Supply and Demand" and on some stairs or a crate in "Sweet 16." Granted, those were more than likely Carmine's flubs, but they weren't edited out, so one has to attribute them to Danny as well.