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Old July 1 2009, 07:01 PM   #136
myfuturecsi
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by GregNickRyanFan View Post
I've read a few Nick/Greg stories and sometimes it's like Greg is the perfect guy and Nick's saviour and such. That's just the feeling I get?
I've read some that are the other way around too.
Oh yeah..I can see that too. I think it depends on who is more of a fan of Nick than Greg..

I think the same holds true for those who write anything. If you are more of a Sara fan, then Sara is the perfect woman, if you are more of a Grissom fan, then Grissom is the perfect guy..

And you know what's funny all four of them are flawed..that's why they are awesome.

It would be nice if someone who wrote slash and wrote GSR could join in. I'm just reader, not a writer of those fics..so it would be interesting to see their perspective on it.
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Old July 1 2009, 07:21 PM   #137
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Well, as a writer of N/G slash I can safely say I don't put myself in their shoes. I mean, I visualise the story as it happens, in order to write it and get the descriptive detail that I love so much. In that sense, sure it could be called a fantasy.

But write myself as Nick or Greg? No, I'm more of a voyeur in that respect.

I hope I give Nick and Greg both the sense of humanity AND fiction that they come with, in that they are a little more than human, but flawed as well. They have the same everyday thoughts, needs and feelings that we all have. Still, they *are* larger than life too, that's why I want to write about them.

Those are my rather humble two cents.
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Old July 1 2009, 07:38 PM   #138
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

I don't put myself in their shoes. I mean, I visualise the story as it happens, in order to write it and get the descriptive detail that I love so much.
Yeah, I've tried to do that too.

As for writing original characters, what I find somewhat helpful is to pick a certain actor/actress that you could see playing the character and go from there. It's a lot easier to use what you know of that person's personality or some of their other characters' personalities to try not to make them Mary Sues/Gary Stus. You just have to tread very carefully.
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Old July 1 2009, 08:52 PM   #139
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by myfuturecsi View Post
Originally Posted by GregNickRyanFan View Post
I've read a few Nick/Greg stories and sometimes it's like Greg is the perfect guy and Nick's saviour and such. That's just the feeling I get?
I've read some that are the other way around too.
Oh yeah..I can see that too. I think it depends on who is more of a fan of Nick than Greg..

I think the same holds true for those who write anything. If you are more of a Sara fan, then Sara is the perfect woman, if you are more of a Grissom fan, then Grissom is the perfect guy..

It would be nice if someone who wrote slash and wrote GSR could join in. I'm just reader, not a writer of those fics..so it would be interesting to see their perspective on it.
I think it actually is the other way around. It seems to me that writers tend to put their favorite characters most through the ringer and let someone else go rescue them. I think people also tend to see the flaws in their favorite characters. It's the characters that I don't care as much about (and, as a result, don't think about as much) for whom I'm not as aware of flaws.

Nick/Greg and Yo!Bling are my two main ships, though I also have soft spots for Greg/Wendy and especially for Hair Pullers (Greg/Riley). For me, Riley and Grissom are the easiest characters to identify with (which is probably odd in and of itself, since they're such different characters), which makes it easier, IMO, to see their flaws and, in general, to write for them. In general, I think that seeing flaws boils down to with which character the author can most easily identify just as much as it does to which character is the author's favorite (for some reason that sentence sounds awful; sorry).

That said, I can still see the flaws in some characters with whom I can neither identify nor claim as favorites. Sara, Hodges and Nick aren't my favorite characters, but I can still see easily what to me are their flaws.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:13 PM   #140
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Alright, I'm gonna have to put my two cents in on this discussion as this is a great discussion.

As for flamers. I agree with what everyone has said about flamers. HappyHarper you have a great perspective on this.

I, also, believe that flamers are people who don't like what you have stated on discussion boards and don't agree with them or argue with them, so they go to your story and flame you.

I had that done on a story I wrote. It's a smut story and the first time I ever wrote or published anything on ff.net. The person signed up, specifically, to flame me. I have a pretty good idea who this person is, but nevertheless, I didn't let it discourage me. It's a Nick story and the girl in the story has no name. I wrote in my summary that the girl in the story is you. Let's face it, whenever your favorite character is having sex in a story, don't you imagine that you are the other person. ETA: Smokey is making fun of me for my word usage, so I'm fixing that.

This is what the review said:

SHE = YOU

MARY SUE - Generic name for a female character who's an ego-stroke for the writer. She's beautiful, has amazing skills/powers and always gets the most handsome male character. Some writers seem to create fiction as an extension or, escape, from their own boring life.
Good writers can write good Mary Sues. Sadly you're not one of them.


It seems to me that the only one with a boring life is the person who wrote this flame. The apparently have nothing better do with their lives than to take the time to register onto a site, just to flame the author because the author voices their opinions and it doesn't coincide with what the flamers opinion is.

Another person who register just to flame:

I've just read your fic and...sorry, but no wonder why everybody says that Nick is the slashiest character on CSI.

Nick's het smut feels so, so WRONG.


"Everybody says that Nick is the slashiest character on CSI" Funny, I don't think he is, guess that's not everybody.

This is a perfect example of someone not accepting my opinion on Nick and agreeing with what they believe.

I don't slash or ship anyone on the show. Doesn't mean I wouldn't write about it. I read slash stories with Nick in them and many of them are very good.

I, also, know that these two people are "Love" fans and don't like that I posted on this board for people to keep their slash out of the Nick picture thread. I would've done the same thing if someone kept shoving down my throat their ship. I mean these are people who don't know the whole story behind those posts, but just consider me homophobic because I didn't want the slash being mentioned in a thread that was not in shipper central. Just like I get annoyed when certain certain posters post GSR all over the place. Now I know that NOT all love fans are like that. I have friends who are love fans and I respect their right to slash who they want, but I also know that these reviews are probably just teenagers who think it's funny to do this and think they are soooooo cool because they flamed someone. (Thankfully, there are a lot of more mature teenagers who don't do those things). If these two people are not teenager, then they really need to grow up. (Since I'm confident they're from this board, maybe they'll read this and go flame my other stories ).

When I wrote that story, I didn't even know what a Mary Sue was. It's funny because in this story the character has no amazing skills/powers or gets the most handsome male character. She doesn't get him, she already has him.

Is the character in the story me? Partly yes, because who doesn't put a part of themselves in every story they write? All authors put a part of themselves in the story (not as the characer). Know what I'm trying to say?

As for flamers, they really need to get their facts straight too. I know someone who got a review telling the author that she should watch the episode "Boom" again because it WAS Grissom that proved Nick didn't kill Kristy, NOT Catherine. Actually, I think that reviewer needs to go back and watch that episode again.

In any case, flamers are par for the course. Personally, I think ff.net needs to do more about it and definitely should give the author the ability to respond to reviews and show that response and/or give the author the ability to remove the review. Flamers are not their to constructively review your story and they shouldn't be allowed to let their review constantly be there. If not, then ff.net should let the author ask for it to be removed. Maybe, just maybe this will stop the flamers. Well, I can hope anyways.

I can't wait until I put my Song Fic challenge story on ff.net that was definitely written for all those Mary Sues out there. The flames should be a comin'.

Last edited by Santasgirl; July 1 2009 at 10:55 PM. Reason: because smokey is making fun of me.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:20 PM   #141
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying this discussion.

I've often wondered too how to write even a regular character as a love interest without seeming as tho I'm putting myself into the character. For that reason, I usually won't do it (I've done one). It's probably also because I prefer fics that are mainly canon. So I try to keep the characters in character.

As for the flaming....I think when someone does that for whatever reason, it's hard to have it there and not be able to remove it, but also I doubt that many readers pay much attention. They read the story and post their own thoughts, but I really doubt they put much stock into something someone else wrote. They're either going to like it or not.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:24 PM   #142
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

I, also, believe that flamers are people who don't like what you have stated on discussion boards and don't agree with them or argue with them, so they go to your story and flame you.
I know for a fact that this reviewer doesn't like me and she's a GSR fan because 'butterfly' was in her name. Then after I blocked her, she changed it to another 'butterfly' name and continued on reading my stories and leaving nasty reviews. This is after I was flamed visciously over at CBS.com-a very poorly managed website for comments I made about GSR. So this person has a vendetta.

And I've been flamed (not to mention) stalked by 'some' Love fans too, speedy. So I feel the pain. It's one thing not to like a ship, but to go after somene because they don't like your ship is beyond me. Should I hunt down every person who doesn't like Nick and Mandy..I'd be on the computer all day..sorry to digress.

Anyways, I notice a lot of these 'flamers' have no stories of their own listed. So I think that these are people who really have no business leaving such nasty reviews if they can't put two words in a sentence. I can't take their remarks seriously because they haven't written anything themselves, so how do they know what's good or bad fan fiction-they don't.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:34 PM   #143
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by speedystokesgirl View Post

In any case, flamers are par for the course. Personally, I think ff.net needs to do more about it and definitely should give the author the ability to respond to reviews and show that response and/or give the author the ability to remove the review. Flamers are not their to constructively review your story and they shouldn't be allowed to let their review constantly be there. If not, then ff.net should let the author ask for it to be removed. Maybe, just maybe this will stop the flamers. Well, I can hope anyways.

I can't wait until I put my Song Fic challenge story on ff.net that was definitely written for all those Mary Sues out there. The flames should be a comin'.
First of all, I definitely agree with you about the flames. That said, FFnet is pretty good in terms of getting rid of flames. The majority of flamers, in my experience, are anonymous, and that can be solved by disabling anonymous reviews (though then you miss out on all of the awesome anon reviewers out there as well) or by deleting unwanted anonymous reviews. If the review is signed, then you can reply directly to the author. Either way, you have options.

ETA:

Well, as a Love fan, I very much hope that other Love fans stop doing this. It gives the whole ship a bad name and is very much not appreciated by many of us. Also, I don't think using the word butterfly necessarily translates to GSR fan-ness. As bugs go, butterflies are fairly popular.

Originally Posted by myfuturecsi View Post

Anyways, I notice a lot of these 'flamers' have no stories of their own listed. So I think that these are people who really have no business leaving such nasty reviews if they can't put two words in a sentence. I can't take their remarks seriously because they haven't written anything themselves, so how do they know what's good or bad fan fiction-they don't.
This doesn't apply to all, but a lot of the hardcore flamers have separate accounts for writing and flaming so that their own stories aren't targeted by the people that they've flamed.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:44 PM   #144
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by happyharper13 View Post
Originally Posted by speedystokesgirl View Post

In any case, flamers are par for the course. Personally, I think ff.net needs to do more about it and definitely should give the author the ability to respond to reviews and show that response and/or give the author the ability to remove the review. Flamers are not their to constructively review your story and they shouldn't be allowed to let their review constantly be there. If not, then ff.net should let the author ask for it to be removed. Maybe, just maybe this will stop the flamers. Well, I can hope anyways.

I can't wait until I put my Song Fic challenge story on ff.net that was definitely written for all those Mary Sues out there. The flames should be a comin'.
First of all, I definitely agree with you about the flames. That said, FFnet is pretty good in terms of getting rid of flames. The majority of flamers, in my experience, are anonymous, and that can be solved by disabling anonymous reviews (though then you miss out on all of the awesome anon reviewers out there as well) or by deleting unwanted anonymous reviews. If the review is signed, then you can reply directly to the author. Either way, you have options.

ETA:

Well, as a Love fan, I very much hope that other Love fans stop doing this. It gives the whole ship a bad name and is very much not appreciated by many of us. Also, I don't think using the word butterfly necessarily translates to GSR fan-ness. As bugs go, butterflies are fairly popular.
I hope they stop doing it too. However, I know not all Love fans are like that. I have anon reviews blocked because I knew that would happen. It doesn't speak well of the person who takes the time to register just to flame.


This doesn't apply to all, but a lot of the hardcore flamers have separate accounts for writing and flaming so that their own stories aren't targeted by the people that they've flamed.
Which makes the flamers nothing but cowards. If you're going to flame than have the guts to do it under your author name. Now see, if I knew an author was flaming me, I wouldn't retaliate. I wouldn't sink to their level and pettiness. I would probably give their stories glowing reviews, because that would just irritate them more.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:48 PM   #145
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

a lot of the hardcore flamers have separate accounts for writing and flaming so that their own stories aren't targeted by the people that they've flamed.
In that case ffnet should make it where one person can only have one account. I know one site in particular, neopets (which I used to use, but haven't in many years) did this because in the beginning people would make multiple accounts and some people would do it to cheat in auctions and such, so the admins of the site put a stop to it. FFnet should follow that example imo.
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Old July 1 2009, 10:48 PM   #146
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Well, as a Love fan, I very much hope that other Love fans stop doing this. It gives the whole ship a bad name and is very much not appreciated by many of us. Also, I don't think using the word butterfly necessarily translates to GSR fan-ness. As bugs go, butterflies are fairly popular.
True..but the butterfly is a symbol of GSR cause of the episode Butterflied.

But still, fan fiction is meant for fun. These flamers can really wreck someone's confidence. I can never be that mean to people.
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Old July 1 2009, 11:11 PM   #147
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by happyharper13 View Post
First of all, I definitely agree with you about the flames. That said, FFnet is pretty good in terms of getting rid of flames.
I think part of the problem is some of these flames are disguised as criticism. There's a fine line that if not crossed, it won't be considered a flame and removed.

Originally Posted by happyharper13 View Post
As bugs go, butterflies are fairly popular.
That made me laugh!!


Originally Posted by GregNickRyanFan View Post
I know someone who got a review telling the author that she should watch the episode "Boom" again because it WAS Grissom that proved Nick didn't kill Kristy, NOT Catherine.
Someone actually said that?
Yeah. That was a review of one of MY stories. They said I "obviously" hadn't seen "Boom" and I'm like...uh...obviously YOU haven't! They also said "this is fan FICTION...get your facts straight!" Ummm....doesn't "fiction" mean I don't have to have any "facts" at all?


I do agree that it's difficult for a writer to have a nasty review there and not be able to remove it. I feel that ffnet should make it to where an author can remove a signed review if they feel it is inappropriate or mean spirited.
I think you should be able to post a response to a review on the site so the author's response shows up there along with the review.

Back to Mary Sues...is it also true that a Mary Sue can be putting yourself in the story even if the character isn't beautiful, perfect, etc.? What I hate is when I read a story about a character involved with someone who is obviously the author...same occupation or whatever. Or when some kid puts themself into a story as Greg's cousin or Sara's sister. Ugh.
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Old July 1 2009, 11:24 PM   #148
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by GregNickRyanFan View Post
a lot of the hardcore flamers have separate accounts for writing and flaming so that their own stories aren't targeted by the people that they've flamed.
In that case ffnet should make it where one person can only have one account. I know one site in particular, neopets (which I used to use, but haven't in many years) did this because in the beginning people would make multiple accounts and some people would do it to cheat in auctions and such, so the admins of the site put a stop to it. FFnet should follow that example imo.
Eh. I can see your point, however, as a concritter, I really hope that they never do something like that. Sometimes, there is a very fine line between ConCrit and flames. Mainly, I love the anonymity of writing fanfiction. I can definitely imagine someone having one account to write stuff they're willing to show their friends and one for the stuff that's more personal. I dunno -- on one hand, I really dislike flamers, but I think people tend to the whole thing too seriously. I still maintain that the majority of stories that get flamed do actually deserve the flames and that another big chunk get enough positive reviews to make flames rather pointless. Regardless, talking about flames here feels a bit like preaching to a choir. If you guys really want to get the flamer's perspective, go to Canon_and_Grammar_Queen's 'Complain Here' forum at "http://www.fanfiction.net/forum/Canon_and_Grammar_Queens_Forum/55500/". I've actually had some pretty interesting conversations there and learned quite a bit about why people flame and the relative merits of flaming vs concritting.

ETA:

Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
I do agree that it's difficult for a writer to have a nasty review there and not be able to remove it. I feel that ffnet should make it to where an author can remove a signed review if they feel it is inappropriate or mean spirited.
I think you should be able to post a response to a review on the site so the author's response shows up there along with the review.
I can see your point. I can never quite decide which method I prefer. Many (I'd even be willing to venture most) other fanfic archives have that feature. That said, I like being able to reply directly to the reader on FFnet because sometimes I want to answer one of their questions without giving it away to anyone else who might happen to venture over to that page of reviews. I also might just want to respond more personally and not have that response be visible to other readers. That said, the way FFnet is laid out for this, authors often end up replying to some reviews in the story text itself via author's note, and I know that I've included wayyy too long author's notes, often at least in part for this reason. The big reason I prefer FFnet's system is that you actually get an email/message informing you that someone has replied to your review since it's a message that goes straight to the reviewer. At the same time, though, I really do think that most of these issues could be resolved while using the other format, where reviews are replied to on the same page. At this point, I think it would probably just take too much work for FFnet to change it.

Back to Mary Sues...is it also true that a Mary Sue can be putting yourself in the story even if the character isn't beautiful, perfect, etc.? What I hate is when I read a story about a character involved with someone who is obviously the author...same occupation or whatever. Or when some kid puts themself into a story as Greg's cousin or Sara's sister. Ugh.
Yes. That is another form of a MarySue, and isn't necessarily a romantic interest. That type of Mary Sue is called a self-insert. She often also appears as a matchmaker. (ex: Grissom's quirky teenage daughter suddenly appears to help Grissom and Sara get together.) Mary-Sues come in all shapes and forms. The one similarity is that they're all bad.

Last edited by happyharper13; July 1 2009 at 11:38 PM. Reason: saw new post
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Old July 1 2009, 11:40 PM   #149
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
Yeah. That was a review of one of MY stories. They said I "obviously" hadn't seen "Boom" and I'm like...uh...obviously YOU haven't! They also said "this is fan FICTION...get your facts straight!" Ummm....doesn't "fiction" mean I don't have to have any "facts" at all?
Yeah, in fiction you can write in an alternate reality if you want to. That's why its fiction. I mean, I've seen some pretty interesting alt reality fics or crossovers. I once read a fic that was a BTVS crossover with Army Of Darkness. that was just all kinds of awesome IMO. If I could only think of how to crossover CSI with Army Of Darkness. Boy that'd be weird.



What I hate is when I read a story about a character involved with someone who is obviously the author...same occupation or whatever.
Same occupation as the author you mean? Or same occupation as the character they're involved with? Cause I think it's harder to write a CSI fic and not make an original character a CSI or something along those lines. Because if you want to write a lot of scenes between the two, its just easier to do if they are both of the same occupation.
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Old July 1 2009, 11:45 PM   #150
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Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

. Regardless, talking about flames here feels a bit like preaching to a choir. If you guys really want to get the flamer's perspective, go to Canon_and_Grammar_Queen's 'Complain Here' forum at "http://www.fanfiction.net/forum/Canon_and_Grammar_Queens_Forum/55500/". I've actually had some pretty interesting conversations there and learned quite a bit about why people flame and the relative merits of flaming vs concritting.
I was just over there. They are pretty mean actually.
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