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CSI: New York Discuss the latest 'CSI' spinoff!

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Old September 26 2009, 06:24 AM   #31
Cath
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Re: Stella and.......

I'll take my leave of this discussion after this because I can see that we're not going to readily agree on this.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
Taking advantage of a person's feelings for you IS taking advantage of the person. You can't take advantage of a person and NOT take advantage of their feelings and vice versa. That makes no sense to me.
You can physically take advantage of someone (i.e. domestic violence, rape, etc.) and then you can take advantage of someone's feelings (i.e. manipulation of any kind). I don't know how I can explain my stance more clearly.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
Once again, we have nothing but speculation to go on when saying Adam and Stella are not on equal emotional footing. Adam could very well have jumped at the chance to sleep with "his crush," but that doesn't automatically equate to him getting in over his head or having expectations that Stella doesn't, so you can't say at this point that Adam is more vulnerable than Stella. There's no proof one way or the other.
Entertaining a crush is by definition having more expectations than sheer lust. Adam had a crush on Stella way before the shooting happened, therefore, he was already more vulnerable than Stella when they got into this one night stand in already heightened emotional circumstances.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
And yeah, Adam had a smile on his face when he called for her in the hallway, but again you're making a huge assumption based on one look. Just like it's a huge assumption to think Stella slept with Adam for selfish reasons.
The only canon we have to see who those characters are and what they feel is what we're shown and told onscreen. If the canon is not self sufficient to portray the characters adequately, then it's shitty fiction with plotholes.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
The potential is there, but the potential would be there for Mac/Stella too because it's a boss/subordinate relationship and Mac has more power in the relationship than Stella does.
Since you're so adamant to bring Mac/Stella into the discussion, yes, Mac would have more power than Stella from a boss/subordinate standpoint but those two would already be better off having a fling together because they'd be on an equal emotional footing. Neither has been said or seen entertaining an unrequited crush for the other onscreen so neither would be taking advantage of the other from an emotional standpoint.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
And if your job means the world to you even a serious relationship with a boss/subordinate might not be worth risking your job. The potential for things to go very wrong is still there and in my book playing with fire is playing with fire. Casual or serious, a relationship with a boss/subordinate has too much potential to go wrong in too many ways.
In my book, playing with fire is relative to what you can't stand to lose the most: your job or a serious relationship. If your job is your priority and you want to be 100% sure of keeping it, then don't enter into a romantic relationship in the workplace at all, whether it's casual or serious. If it's not, well then, make sure that you're on the same emotional page with the other person as to manage the risks of such a relationship otherwise this is exactly where you'll find trouble.
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Old September 26 2009, 06:46 AM   #32
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Re: Stella and.......

Originally Posted by Cath View Post
I'll take my leave of this discussion after this because I can see that we're not going to readily agree on this.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
Taking advantage of a person's feelings for you IS taking advantage of the person. You can't take advantage of a person and NOT take advantage of their feelings and vice versa. That makes no sense to me.
You can physically take advantage of someone (i.e. domestic violence, rape, etc.) and then you can take advantage of someone's feelings (i.e. manipulation of any kind). I don't know how I can explain my stance more clearly.
So you're saying that domestic violence and rape are not taking advantage of someone's feelings as well as taking advantage of them physically??? And sleeping with someone who has feelings for you when you don't have feelings for them isn't taking advantage of them physically as well as emotionally?? I'm almost positive people who have had one of these things happen to them would tell you otherwise. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear either.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
Once again, we have nothing but speculation to go on when saying Adam and Stella are not on equal emotional footing. Adam could very well have jumped at the chance to sleep with "his crush," but that doesn't automatically equate to him getting in over his head or having expectations that Stella doesn't, so you can't say at this point that Adam is more vulnerable than Stella. There's no proof one way or the other.
Entertaining a crush is by definition having more expectations than sheer lust. Adam had a crush on Stella way before the shooting happened, therefore, he was already more vulnerable than Stella when they got into this one night stand in already heightened emotional circumstances.
That's only true if Adam's crush blinded him to the circumstances of the two of them getting together. If he knew Stella was seeking comfort because of the shooting and he knows it was a one time thing and Stella doesn't feel anything other than friendship for him then he's clearly NOT more vulnerable than Stella. Having a crush doesn't automatically make you oblivous to the reality of a situation.



The only canon we have to see who those characters are and what they feel is what we're shown and told onscreen. If the canon is not self sufficient to portray the characters adequately, then it's shitty fiction with plotholes.
I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make here. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't take what little we've seen in canon and make huge assumptions and leaps in logic.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
The potential is there, but the potential would be there for Mac/Stella too because it's a boss/subordinate relationship and Mac has more power in the relationship than Stella does.
Since you're so adamant to bring Mac/Stella into the discussion, yes, Mac would have more power than Stella from a boss/subordinate standpoint but those two would already be better off having a fling together because they'd be on an equal emotional footing. Neither has been said or seen entertaining an unrequited crush for the other onscreen so neither would be taking advantage of the other from an emotional standpoint.
Again you have no way of knowing if Mac/Stella are on equal footing emotionally. Mac has only been in one relationship since Claire died and Stella has been in extremely bad relationships. I don't think we have enough evidence to say what type of emotional issues they have in regards to romantic/sexual relationships.

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
And if your job means the world to you even a serious relationship with a boss/subordinate might not be worth risking your job. The potential for things to go very wrong is still there and in my book playing with fire is playing with fire. Casual or serious, a relationship with a boss/subordinate has too much potential to go wrong in too many ways.
In my book, playing with fire is relative to what you can't stand to lose the most: your job or a serious relationship. If your job is your priority and you want to be 100% sure of keeping it, then don't enter into a romantic relationship in the workplace at all, whether it's casual or serious. If it's not, well then, make sure that you're on the same emotional page with the other person as to manage the risks of such a relationship otherwise this is exactly where you'll find trouble.
And in relation to Adam and Stella there is no concrete proof they are not on the same emotional page so I don't see how they are playing with fire when another relationship between co-workers wouldn't be.
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Old September 26 2009, 11:25 AM   #33
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Re: Stella and.......

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
You can physically take advantage of someone (i.e. domestic violence, rape, etc.) and then you can take advantage of someone's feelings (i.e. manipulation of any kind). I don't know how I can explain my stance more clearly.
So you're saying that domestic violence and rape are not taking advantage of someone's feelings as well as taking advantage of them physically??? And sleeping with someone who has feelings for you when you don't have feelings for them isn't taking advantage of them physically as well as emotionally?? I'm almost positive people who have had one of these things happen to them would tell you otherwise. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear either.
i see both your points - i'm not sure i'd lump sleeping with someone who likes you (which is to an extent taking advantage) in the same ballpark as dv, rape or emotional abuse, i think there's a bit of a gap which stella definitely doesn't seem to have crossed. ultimately i think in this case it does indeed take two to tango and i think adam probably knew what he was getting into - ok, maybe he wanted more (the look on his face during their chat suggested so, i thought) but i'm sure he was aware of the inherent risks of sleeping with his boss. he may be a bit geeky but i don't think he's stupid and i don't think he's so naive he didn't know the risks. basically this:

That's only true if Adam's crush blinded him to the circumstances of the two of them getting together.... Having a crush doesn't automatically make you oblivous to the reality of a situation.

Again you have no way of knowing if Mac/Stella are on equal footing emotionally. Mac has only been in one relationship since Claire died and Stella has been in extremely bad relationships. I don't think we have enough evidence to say what type of emotional issues they have in regards to romantic/sexual relationships.
yeah, i tend to agree - from my point of view (and i'm preparing to get lynched here) most of the substance of smacked is in the eyes of the beholders - it's obvious that there's definitely a chemistry between the characters and arguably the actors (because something like that really can't be faked), but all the looks and glances and words that have been implied to mean they are madly in love with eachother and should start dating could probably be interpreted in other ways as well, depending on your perspective. i think the notable exception to that is obviously what happened in GFD, but even that wasn't 100% conclusive proof. also as you say they've both had difficulties in other relationships - so their emotional equality really isn't a foregone conclusion. hmm, i really should've done this in the smacked thread
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Old September 26 2009, 01:33 PM   #34
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Re: Stella and.......

This one thing really boggled what mind I had left. At first I was thinking...oh it was just Adam having a dream about him and Stella. But as it progressed, I discovered that it was just me dreaming!!! I was taken way off all mental thinking after that. I would have almost thought Stella and Flack. That would have been more un-boggling.

Can't wait to see if Stella and Adam are going to have a hard time working together after that!!! Gotta be careful about work and affairs! Something always comes back to bite ya on the butt!
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Old September 26 2009, 03:35 PM   #35
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Re: Stella and.......

This one thing really boggled what mind I had left. At first I was thinking...oh it was just Adam having a dream about him and Stella. But as it progressed, I discovered that it was just me dreaming!!! I was taken way off all mental thinking after that. I would have almost thought Stella and Flack. That would have been more un-boggling.
Adam and Flack in both cases are/had been wrong especially because in both cases is a cute affection brotherly-sisterly with Stella
BUT since Flack and Stella are a lot alike how they react (and certainly Adam is too even tough he is more vulnerable) it would have had more sense if BOTH of them woudl have sex. Besides since they are emotionally mature people (even tough they are in a trainwreck now) they could have dealt with "I sleep with you" part

With Adam, if there is a follow up to this story (I assume there will be) Stella will look like the bitchy co worker next to the "Oh poor Baby, he is so vulnerable"

So it's potentially a DISASTER for both (actually for Stella is already is. It's not her nature)
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Old September 26 2009, 05:05 PM   #36
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Re: Stella and.......

Personally, and I'm just a newbie, both to this forum and to CSI:Ny (Just been watching a few months but I've seen enough), I think that Adam is too, not necessarily young but not mature enough either! Mac however, I am a hardcore Smacked fan because I think that Mac and Stella balance each other out! In Grounds for Deception, he was pretty much the only one willing to follow her to Greece. I could be wrong, but if a man is just friends with a woman or just her boss, he doesn't follow her halfway around the world, that's just weird. I think Adam and Stella did what Danny and that woman Rikki did, they took comfort in each other, which is okay but not necessarily the way they did it, they could have done something other than sleep with each other. I'm not saying what they did was right, but I'm saying that it could have been portrayed differently. Not all comfort has to come from sleeping with someone. Plus, in a way Adam took advantage of her, he didn't try to stop her, he could have stopped her, he could have just as easily said no. I'm sorry but I disagree that Stella took advantage of Adam, they took advantage of each other. Adam let his crush on Stella cloud his judgment and he made a wrong choice, and as long as they're willing to admit that it was stupid and that it should have never happened and will not happen again, than I think it's time to move on. Being a Smacked fan, I'm looking at it from both P.O.Vs and in my opinion, Adam and Stella took advantage of each other. That's just my opinion. Plus, Stella has just never seemed like the type to take advantage of someone, but I could be wrong, I just think that Adam's crush on her clouded his judgment. If Adam let his personal feelings get in the way of his better judgment, than I think that's more proof that Adam has some growing up to do. Both Adam and Stella lost some of my respect. Stella because I feel she betrayed Mac and Adam because I feel he should have been mature enough to say no.

Personally I think that if Mac ever found out, he would fly off the handle, regardless of whether he's actually with Stella. He likes Stella and he likes Adam but I think he likes it better when Stella is like a big sister or a mother figure to Adam. I think he likes HIS Stella better when she's just that HIS Stella, regardless of their relationship or what direction it goes, to Mac, Stella will always be his because they have a history, she was there when his wife died and she was there when Drew Bedford went psycho. Mac and Stella are best friends and to me that tops boss/subordinate because they crossed that line long before her thing with Adam ever happened.

That's just my opinion. When thinking about it from a Smacked fan's P.O.V it's hard to imagine that it would be anything other than Mac/Stella, because it's just that way, the show has more cases with Mac and Stella than Mac and anyone else or Stella and anyone else. Mac works with Stella more than he does anyone else. Looking at it from my P.O.V, the whole thing with Adam and Stella needs to go down the drain before it gets stupid.
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Old September 26 2009, 06:33 PM   #37
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Re: Stella and.......

Originally Posted by *lisasimpson* View Post
Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
You can physically take advantage of someone (i.e. domestic violence, rape, etc.) and then you can take advantage of someone's feelings (i.e. manipulation of any kind). I don't know how I can explain my stance more clearly.
So you're saying that domestic violence and rape are not taking advantage of someone's feelings as well as taking advantage of them physically??? And sleeping with someone who has feelings for you when you don't have feelings for them isn't taking advantage of them physically as well as emotionally?? I'm almost positive people who have had one of these things happen to them would tell you otherwise. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear either.
i see both your points - i'm not sure i'd lump sleeping with someone who likes you (which is to an extent taking advantage) in the same ballpark as dv, rape or emotional abuse
I didn't mean to put them in the same ballpark as far as the severity of the action or the impact of the aftermath. I only meant to show that if you are taking advantage of someone in those instances you are taking advantage of them both emotionally and physically. I should've made that part more clear.

Originally Posted by SmackedFan1693
Personally I think that if Mac ever found out, he would fly off the handle, regardless of whether he's actually with Stella. He likes Stella and he likes Adam but I think he likes it better when Stella is like a big sister or a mother figure to Adam. I think he likes HIS Stella better when she's just that HIS Stella, regardless of their relationship or what direction it goes, to Mac, Stella will always be his because they have a history, she was there when his wife died and she was there when Drew Bedford went psycho. Mac and Stella are best friends and to me that tops boss/subordinate because they crossed that line long before her thing with Adam ever happened.


Mac would have no excuse for flying off the handle because there is no "HIS Stella." The two of them are not romantically involved on the show and never have been and who she sleeps with is none of his business no matter how close of friends they are. And since Danny and Lindsay are married with a baby he can't play the "you work together" card because if there can be one couple on the team there can be another. Plus, if he played the "you work together" and/or the "you're his superior" card then there would be absolutely no way it would EVER be justified for Mac and Stella to hook up if they are both still working at the lab together.

That's just my opinion. When thinking about it from a Smacked fan's P.O.V it's hard to imagine that it would be anything other than Mac/Stella, because it's just that way, the show has more cases with Mac and Stella than Mac and anyone else or Stella and anyone else. Mac works with Stella more than he does anyone else. Looking at it from my P.O.V, the whole thing with Adam and Stella needs to go down the drain before it gets stupid.
By using that logic then Hawkes and Sid should hook up romantically because they work together more closely than Sid works with anyone else. Or Mac and Flack should hook up because Flack works on all of their cases. Or Stella and Flack for the same reason. Working together closely and being friends with someone doesn't automatically mean people should hook up romantically

Last edited by PerfectAnomaly; September 26 2009 at 06:47 PM.
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Old September 26 2009, 08:27 PM   #38
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Re: Stella and.......

I don’t live the Adam/Stella story line it should never have happen in the first place, I would love for it to be a dream.
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Old September 26 2009, 09:05 PM   #39
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Okay I think we misunderstood each other. Okay so Stella may have taken advantage of Adam's crush on her as a way of dealing with her grief but I heard nothing of Adam realizing what Stella was doing and telling to stop. He let it happen, his crush on Stella and maybe in some way his own grief clouded his judgment and that shows a lack of maturity on his part. Grief or no grief anybody can be mature enough to say no. If Stella did take advantage of Adam, which may have been the case, than I think she needs to learn a better way to deal with grief, because sleeping with someone feelings or no feelings, to deal with grief is wrong.

No I wasn't saying that Mac and Stella had to be romantically involved for her to "His", I'm just saying that to some extent, in Mac's mind, she is because if you think about it, he's more protective of her than anyone, I didn't see Flack hopping on a plane to Greece or any of the team really. Any one could have followed her but they didn't Mac did. Mac's protective of Stella and in his mind I think to some extent she is "his". Okay if a guy has to be romantically involved with a girl to be protective of her than it would be wrong for brothers to be protective of sisters.

I do however see your point about Mac flying off the handle, he would have no excuse because, even if they are best friends. You do have a point, it's not his business who Stella chooses to sleep with because it wasn't her business when he was with Peyton, if you could even call that a relationship. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about that.

I do however see all of your points.
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Old September 27 2009, 12:18 AM   #40
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Re: Stella and.......

Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post
Originally Posted by *lisasimpson* View Post
Originally Posted by PerfectAnomaly View Post

So you're saying that domestic violence and rape are not taking advantage of someone's feelings as well as taking advantage of them physically??? And sleeping with someone who has feelings for you when you don't have feelings for them isn't taking advantage of them physically as well as emotionally?? I'm almost positive people who have had one of these things happen to them would tell you otherwise. I don't know how I can make myself any more clear either.
i see both your points - i'm not sure i'd lump sleeping with someone who likes you (which is to an extent taking advantage) in the same ballpark as dv, rape or emotional abuse
I didn't mean to put them in the same ballpark as far as the severity of the action or the impact of the aftermath. I only meant to show that if you are taking advantage of someone in those instances you are taking advantage of them both emotionally and physically. I should've made that part more clear.
oh yeah, that's fair enough, i agree with that then
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Old September 27 2009, 02:38 PM   #41
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Re: Stella and.......

Okay,
I've said how I feel they took advantage of each other and how I believe Adam is severely lacking in the maturity area, that's all I'm gonna say. Anyway, moving on, does anyone else find the very idea of this relationship going beyond a one night stand too much like incest? I've always seen Stella as kind of a big sister to Adam and anything more is just too much like incest. I hope the writers give up the whole Adam/Stella deal and move past it, hopefully it won't effect them too much, but I'm gonna be mad if they take this thing farther than a one night stand, it's just too, uh WRONG!!! If they want someone for Adam, they should have never let Kendall go, and they should have NEVER brought Haylen or whatever that chick's name is, in.
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Old September 27 2009, 04:33 PM   #42
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Re: Stella and.......

Originally Posted by SmackedFan1693 View Post
Okay,
I've said how I feel they took advantage of each other and how I believe Adam is severely lacking in the maturity area, that's all I'm gonna say. Anyway, moving on, does anyone else find the very idea of this relationship going beyond a one night stand too much like incest? I've always seen Stella as kind of a big sister to Adam and anything more is just too much like incest. I hope the writers give up the whole Adam/Stella deal and move past it, hopefully it won't effect them too much, but I'm gonna be mad if they take this thing farther than a one night stand, it's just too, uh WRONG!!! If they want someone for Adam, they should have never let Kendall go, and they should have NEVER brought Haylen or whatever that chick's name is, in.
INCEST??? Reallly? That's an extremely strong word to be throwing around. Adam and Stella are NOT related in any way, shape or form. Just because they had a different dynamic before they slept together doesn't automatically make it wrong for them to do so. They're both consenting adults.

I admit that I had serious resevations about this pairing before the episode aired and thought it might be "icky," but to compare it to incest is just mind boggling to me. If that's the case then we might as well say Danny/Lindsay is incest or if anyone else in the lab got together it'd be incest because they all definitely had/have a family vibe to them. That comparason just does not compute for me.
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Old September 27 2009, 06:48 PM   #43
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Re: Stella and.......

Did I say it was incest? No I said it was like incest! Do they have to be related for it to seem like incest? No they don't! A guy can not date a girl because it would be too much like dating his sister, or a girl cannot date a guy because it would be too much like dating her brother! I never said they were related and they don't have to be, but to me it seems like they established one dynamic and then completely changed that dynamic by having them sleep together. I never said it was incest, I said it was like it! And maybe incest is too strong of a word but that's the only way I know how to describe it, now call me a complete dummy or whatever, but I don't know another word for incest! It's hard for me to see it any other way, because from the time Adam was brought in, that's all I've ever seen them as, is like brother and sister, therefore them sleeping together would be LIKE incest!

Last edited by SmackedFan1693; September 27 2009 at 06:50 PM. Reason: not finished
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Old September 27 2009, 07:02 PM   #44
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Re: Stella and.......

Originally Posted by SmackedFan1693 View Post
Did I say it was incest? No I said it was like incest! Do they have to be related for it to seem like incest? No they don't! A guy can not date a girl because it would be too much like dating his sister, or a girl cannot date a guy because it would be too much like dating her brother! I never said they were related and they don't have to be, but to me it seems like they established one dynamic and then completely changed that dynamic by having them sleep together. I never said it was incest, I said it was like it! And maybe incest is too strong of a word but that's the only way I know how to describe it, now call me a complete dummy or whatever, but I don't know another word for incest! It's hard for me to see it any other way, because from the time Adam was brought in, that's all I've ever seen them as, is like brother and sister, therefore them sleeping together would be LIKE incest!

You compared it to incest which is pretty much saying it is incest. But, OK, fine. If that's the case then we might as well say Danny/Lindsay is like incest or if anyone else in the lab got together it'd be like incest because they all definitely had/have a family vibe to them.
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Old September 28 2009, 02:08 AM   #45
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Re: Stella and.......

^ exactly! [/two cents]
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