Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show?

This was a question originally posted by hahaguy in the spoiler thread, but I thought we should discuss it seperately here. I reckon if anyone wants to post any spoilers we'd just use the spoiler box.

But back to the thread title, like I was saying, I think especially since season 6 and the Kyle storyline, the show has become more soap opera-like. Don't get me wrong, I like the Kyle storyline but it's become a little more than a simple forensics show which I think it started out to be.

On the other hand, I think shows have to evolve, cos if the writers stick to the same forensics all the time, people might get bored. Afterall if you follow a show long enough, you'd want to learn more about the characters, hence the personal drama comes in.

My grouse if that we should learn more about Ryan, Natalia and Frank. Not just the others.

But as I mentioned before I'd still stick to the show, I doubt there'll be a time when I have enough and will stop watching. Maybe if DC leaves the show.... but if he does I reckon Miami will end its' run.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Ok I already answered this question but I'll repeat my opinion about this.
Lateley there has been too much drama and let's say not only H's drama.
We had drama and practically no crime scenes although I have to say I really enjoyed the last three episodes especially "All In" in which Calleigh had to improvise a sort of kit. These were three good CSI's episodes.
I'm all for crime scenes but still I'm also for some drama...for some character developments.
Obviously having always H, Calleigh and Eric's drma with evryone else excluded like Natalia, Ryan (does he have a family???) and Alexx ( oh boy this was the most underestimated and usless character of the show)is not good. I mean it's kinda boring.
In all honesty....I'll never leave this show...because I'm too affectionate to all the characters and the show that I don't think I'd be able to say one day "well...stop it!!! I'll stop watching it" although there are a lot of aspects I don't like about it.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I agree Speed_Cochrane.

I personally don't mind some personal drama but only if it remains within the concept of the show. To be honest, Calleigh's recent storyline was... okay... as in it still kept to what the concept of the show should be about (something to do with Crime Scene Investigations) but it was so poorly conveyed, so full of holes, that it came over far more silly than it could have been.

I think the first major downfall of the show going from something that resembled a Crime Scene Investigation team to becoming something rather Soapy in context was when Horatio and Delko buggered off to Brazil to avenge, at the time, Marisol's murder. That in all honesty had nothing to do with Crime Scene Investigations which meant that it was nowhere near what the concept of the show should have been about.

In my opinion, there has always been soap elements in CSI Miami, it can't really be avoided if you want your characters to evolve, but it wasn't something that dominated the show to the point where everything else not only took a back seat but on some occasions became almost non-existent.

For instance, and as you say, the Kyle storyline. I honestly can't remember if they were actually investigating anything at the time. All I remember is Horatio discovering he had a kid who was in trouble... and while it might have been good to see had it not dominated the show so much, it still wouldn't have been the reason I was watching CSI Miami.

Also, for instance, we got to know the Calleigh character far more when her Father came into the station to report the possibility that he had killed someone while driving under the influence of alcohol, and yet there was not one soap bubble to be found. You still had the Drama of investigating a Crime scene and you had a heck of a lot more character development too, not only for Calleigh but also for her Father and Ryan as well.

Somewhere along the line, the line between Drama and Soap has become so blurred that I feel that the Soap is now being mistaken for Drama, and yet the two are so easily distinguishable from the other.

Soap is something that can happen anywhere - It doesn't matter about the setting or the concept (such as the Kyle storyline) - whereas Drama is something that makes use of all the elements of the show - such as the setting (Miami), the concept of the show (Crime Scene Investigating). It means that the pure Drama is something that can only happen in, in this instance, a Crime Scene investigation in Miami (such as Calleigh's Father storyline - The Miami part being that that's where she works).

So, yeah, anyway, definitely far more soapy than what it used to be, in my opinion.

...Sorry about the long post..

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Agreed. A mix of drama and forensics is a necessity, especially in a show that's had a 6 year run, but the balance has tipped in the wrong direction. A little drama thrown in, highlighting 1 or 2 characters, is a good thing. A soap opera, with a little crime and forensics thrown in, flies in the face of the show's intent.
:wtf:
I can't even discuss Horatio's one man annihilation squad without being thrown off this board. My only comment, for David and for TPTB: WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I think it's close. Kyle resurfacing into H's life after 16 years is a little soapy, co-workers swapping "mates"...yes too soapy!!! It's just one of those things I guess i'm torn on. I do like to see the character development, but not in the way they are writing it.
I don't even mind that they become involved in investigations that they shouldn't. It is very unrealistic, but I would want to see how it effects the individual working the case.
I do see that they are more focused on the personal lives more than the crime scenes...that I don't really like. It needs to be spread out more, a few moments here & a few moments there. I'd much rather see a case that maybe affects the person working it & see the development through them solving the case. Like Eric's case w/ spousal abuse, or Horatio investigating a crime that involves a child/parent's murder, Natalia investigating a woman who was killed by her husband...anything that is a slight reflection of who the characters are & how it affects them. It doesn't have to be completely forced into each episode, they can "develop" a character without having to make the whole damn season about them & thier personal life.
I don't think I could ever stop watching, I suppose it depends on what direction it goes. Im giving them a chance to see how things go next season...if it's anything like this past then I would most likely grow way too bored & turn the channel. It's not what I like to see on this type of show.
It's purely retarded at this point & my patience is wearing thin.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

:lol: Yeah, I know what you mean, inthewind. Goodness me but that was awful and for so many reasons other than the blatantly obvious

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Nice thread - the answer for me is one word — YES!

It's as if CSI:Miami is 2 completely different shows - the Seasons 1-3 Miami and the Seasons 4-6 Miami. It used to be the that crimes drove the characters' development, not the other way around, and that kind of subtlty was nice. I think of "Dead Woman Walking" or "Witness to Murder" - great eps for Horatio that DID NOT involve long lost sons or marrying his CSIs siblings His character developed through reacting to a crime, and you didn't need all this soapy drama to see that H was upset in these eps. (Although now it's like H never expresses emotion over anything, which is stupid. )

For Calleigh, I think the eps w/her father developed her character much better than these latest "Calleigh almost dies...AGAIN" plot lines. While she's gotten storylines, I dont' think they've really developed her character well. With her father, you got a lot more resonance and it worked b/c it wasn't always in your face. Even the thing w/Hagen wasn't that bad b/c it wasn't every freakin' ep.

And let's not get started on all the Eric Delko drama of the last three years - we know he's a stand-up guy who's gotten more than his fair share of hardships. Don't get me wrong, I like the continuity of his brain injury, but spread it out more please! The fact that everyone's always saying how great he is is getting kind of irritating for me.

Poor Ryan - the residential screw-up who never gets anything good to do. While everyone's always affirming Eric, Ryan is always getting yelled at for doing something stupid. Eric screws up and it's OK, but Ryan screws up and NO ONE has his back. It's rediculous - we need to learn more about Ryan, esp. in light of his gambling problems. It came as such a shock b/c nothing seemed wrong w/him, you know? They are not doing a good job w/his character at all.


When friendships and teamwork take a backseat to romance, then it starts becoming a soap opera and not a crime drama. Relationships don't need to be romantic to be compelling - take Eric and Speed, for instance. Having only two characters in a scene and continuously pairing up the same people gets boring after awhile, especially when the cases get STUPID (see "Just Murdered" and "Guerillas in the Mist.")

This show was 10 times better in Seasons 1-3 - the character storylines were peppered throughout the season and the team worked as a TEAM - there was a family feel. Now it's just one, big disjointed soap opera, and the crimes aren't nearly as compelling as they used to be.

Like Speed_Cochrane said, I don't think they started Miami thinking, "Let's make this as rediculous as possible." I think they set rules in the beginning, in terms of realism, and they shouldn't break those rules. I don't know what TPTB are thinking, but I believe the declining ratings speak for themselves. When this show was first declared #1 in the world, most countries were still on Season 3 (US was in Season 4), so you know what? I think that was more of an afforemation of the first 3 seasons than of any soapy plot TPTB pushed in Season 4 and beyond.

I could say so much more, but this is wayy too long. Rant over. For now.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Yes, the show is getting more soapy, but personally, I don't care. I for one like all of the H drama and the rest of the storylines. As long as there is a case thrown in every episode, and future storylines involving Ryan's screw-ups, I'm good.

IMO, the show is slowly getting better than it has been since seasons 4 and 5. For me, I rarely get the feeling of "Oh, CBS is trying too hard to impress the audience - AGAIN" anymore. Besides, H is getting to be more human than we have seen him been since season 3, so that alone makes the show better for me. Throw in all the drama you want, but the main thing I'm concerned about right now is whether or not H returns to his former self. But that subject is for a different thread.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

CSI Miami a soap opera? Not just yet but it is on its way. If anyone has seen soap operas these day, they are pretty ridiculous. CSI Miami isn't there yet but if TPTB isn't careful or does not make some changes it sure as hell will be. We haven't seen any of the team member play musical beds with each other so far. This is par-for-the-course in soap operas these days.

Yes, there has been more drama. If you want to develop the characters you can't separate drama from development. My argument is that the drama and the show's central concept are definitely out of balance.

CSI-LV did a great job in the Grissom/Sara situation. Personally I would have liked to have seen just a little bit more on the evolution of that relationship. But all in all I would have to give TPTB an 'A' for the portrayal of the Grissom/Sara relationship. Well done!

Certain things have gone soapy, for instance H and the son he never new he had. The re-emergence of his long lost love Julia. We also have this "triangle" of Eric/Calleigh/Jake. This in particular is getting very old. This whole situation should have been concluded some time ago. IMHO TPTB has overplayed their hand with respect to the whole Calleigh/Eric situation. I can see how TPTB would want to create excitement by exploiting that angle but it is getting overdone. In general I see this season as being heavily biased toward Calleigh and it seems other characters are getting left to hang in the wind.

What about Ryan? Another poster made some good comments on him. Doesn't this guy have family? We don't hear anything about him unless he's screwing up. Is he dating? Does he even like women?

What about Frank? Is his purpose just to play tag along with Horatio and provide some sort of comic relief? If he is a detective why is he tagging along with H anyway? What's his life like outside the lab?

With Eric they could have done things differently. Instead of Marisol being shot. It may have been better if Marisol had just died of cancer. From season 1 or 2 there were some scenes that alluded to a strained relationship between Eric and his father. How about using that in the wake of Marisol's passing.

Why even does every case have to be solved in a single episode? Why not have a case that has no suspects in one part of the season but later in the season, a break in the case opens the case wide open.


I am not opposed to drama or romance on the show. I'm not even opposed to team members becoming involved with each other. However it has to be done correctly and can't overshadow the show's central theme. Done correctly it should enhance the show and develop its characters. Not dominate the characters and take over the show.

Corey Miller has been quoted that the writers do watch the message boards, likely looking for ideas and angles. I would hope that they peruse this board as well. Hopefully they may even be watching this thread and take some of its criticisms seriously.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

It's when they suddenly throw something in with no previous development that annoys me. And when they introduce something and then let it drop.

Where did Ryan's gambling thing come from? Why? It's not the kind of thing that appears from nowhere and for no reason. If they're at all interested in the character, then they should include some kind of explanation. Maybe a scene with Calleigh or Alexx - it doesn't take a genius to think of something reasonable.

And then, where did his OCD go? It's been mentioned a few times and then ignored. It's this convenient picking up and dropping of interesting stuff about the characters that makes it soapy for me.

And why is no one mourning Marisol? H was married to her; she was Delko's sister. I would really expect them both to be affected by her death more longterm than they seem to be.

I'm not going to get started on everything, because you'll never stop me. Suffice to say that it's the lack of continuity that says "low budget soap" to me. I'm not going to stop watching, though. Too much eye candy! And how would I get through the week without playing "Finish Horatio's One-Liner Before He Does"?

ETA - I really hope that when (if) Khandi leaves, it's a proper exit, not just a sudden, half-explained disappearance. A proper reason for going - a better job, a family move, moving back to NY to be close to her family. Not a dramatic shooting or a scandalous disgrace or a huffy tantrum and walking out over something. No one leaves a job that good without a good reason. And please don't let her have a life-threatening illness without looking ill! *begs writers*

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

In my opinion there's a difference between character developments and soap opera...and I still think that right now TPTB aren't able to distinguish it.
That's why I tend to think we had character developmente in s1, s2 and s3...while in s4,s5, s6 we practically had only drama, soap opera.

Character development...in my opinion is when you have one character involved in case that makes him/her grow.

To me you can't call development
- Horatio's son showing in his life after 16 years. I kinda appreciate how they're developing this plot but still I find it too soap opera.
It was development when we had Ray's stuff connected to some of the cases.

-Calleigh having troubles whenever she puts her hands on a wheel (OMG 3 incidents/troubles in less thatn one year) There could have been a good possibility to make her character grow with the first accident...but nothing.....she came back as if nothing happened her. Same thing with the second incident. The only thing that I can hope is too see her still a little bit shocked after her kidnapping.
Plus this "triangle" ( I still think that I cannot see 3 lines in this figure) is the best example of soap opera. It would have been better if thy never showed Jake (leaving her alone for her whole life) or putting her in Eric's arm since the first season (cause come on....whenever I see this couple in s6 it looks to me as if I'm watching Dawson and Joey from "Dawson's Creek").
It was a crime scene show.....it would have been better if they left Calleigh alone with her father drinking problems.
She had a better development in the first three seasons with her father. e.g. she was involved in the case he thought he killed that man in "Under The Influence". To me it was an example of character development. She couldn't investigate on it simply because of conflict of interest...and I really appreciated they didn't let her investigate (it showed how CSI:Miami still was a crime show and not a soap opera). Plus she had the occasion to grow...first when she made him drink...and second when she talked with him and H at the end of episode.

-Eric looking as if he's normal but still he can't remember how to process a crime scene. He has to write notes about it on a paper. Now I don't want to shock people.......but I still think that Eric Delko shouldn't have come back to the lab after the shooting.
Come on he has a bullet in his brain.
I know that they have to make him come back cause Adam Rodriguez still is a member of the cast....but in all honesty I think this was the worst mistake ever of CSI:Miami. With this plot it lost all the realism...come on this show is a CSI. It should deal with science...and after "Man Dow" I think science was thrown in a wastepaper bin.
You can't state the death of a man, then give him athropine and then when we all know he lost his memory and he'll never be the same because of brain damages...you can't make him come back after what....2 weeks without a sort of tutor.
Then we have him hallucinating like a nut all over the crime scenes without anyone asking him/herself if that's the case to get him fired.
I always enjoyed his character but still I can't understand how they could ruin him in this way...and making him so unbelievable.

Exactly my thought miamirocks.
They were developing his character in such a good way during s3 and s4 as I already mentioned on an other thread....that I can't understad and don't like this new change.
Plus I still think that this kind of "triangle"/soap opera started with this change.

-Ryan. One of the usless characters of the show. They are only able to make him screw up and still I can't understand why. I know he replaced Tim Speedle and it was nice to see him screwing up during s3...and at the beginning of s4 but...why does he have to screw up practically in every single episode???now after 3 years he is in the lab??? I really don't get it.
And as AliGtr mentioned before when did he have gambling problems before "death pool"???

-Natalia. They were building a good character developments during s5 and s6 but now it looks like as if they forgot about her existence and I don't know why....I don't get it.

-Alexx...I won't talk about it cause to me what is going to happen to her character and all Khandi's stuff explains it so well.
Her character was brutally underused in this show.


So if you remember me all these problems with the characters I'll say yeah it's too soap opera with very little of science....but I don't know why I'm too affecionate to the character to give up watching the show.
On the other hand I still think that with too science and practically non character involvments in the cases it would be too boring.

Sorry for the long post

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

if i want serious CSI, i watch vegas or new york. For entertaining, over the top unrealistic csi, i watch Miami. Season's 1 and 2 were too similar to vegas, it wouldn't have worked out if the show didn't change. I don't care about the science, since most of it is fake or simplified to high school level anyways.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

In all honesty, xfCanadian, I don't think CSI Miami has ever been anything like Vegas and New York. For me, Miami has always been far lighter than the other two, which is why I watched Miami with interest at the beginning.

I have no idea why this is, but I can only say that I thoroughly enjoyed the friendships and the teamwork of Miami and the joking about that they used to do.

I also think that this is also part of the reason why Miami is not working for me now, because, as well as sacrificing vital character traits for the sake of some silly storylines and/or some stupid, smart-ass line, they seem to be taking themselves far too seriously now, and that just doesn't work for me, especially when my initial thoughts were that this was a good quality piece of entertainment, with some semi-believable characters, working together within a splendid setting... and that was all it was.

Now though I feel like I'm expected to believe without question that Horatio Caine can survive a direct hit on his hummer and walk away without a scratch or smudge of soot on his face and/or clothing, or that I should still believe in the core of the character even as he executes another member of the Mala Noches gang without any remorse whatsoever.

For me, the depth that there was to this show (which ultimately, for me, came from what motivated the characters) has now vanished, simply because there is nothing about the characters I can believe in, and so because of that, for me, this show is now nigh-on pure soap with an eensy bit of Drama if we're lucky, or that someone remembers to put some in.

 

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

seasons 1 and 2 for me were pretty much identical format to vegas, except they had some more character stuff. I ignore most of the forensic stuff for all the shows...its just so unrealistic, so i couldn't care less if its shown.

Horatio...love or hate him, everyone knows his character. He is the most brought up character in pop culture references, maybe other than Grissom. He was spoofed on the simpsons :lol:. An animated H. The show has created its own identity with what i call 'miamisms'. I know people who love miami, but won't watch vegas, since it is too boring. Its fake, unrealistic and comic book like...because thats the style. It is a fictional world...and a very well done one. Looks fab. I love Miami, the way it is now. It's the pimped out version of CSI and appeals to the younger crowd. Its also the most 'Bruckheimer' of the three...reminds me of his movies :lol: